Use Wesnoth as Engine?

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Method
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Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Method » Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:47 pm

Has anyone thought about using the open-source Wesnoth as an engine for a EFS remake? Technically, it's a good sprite/sound engine, but some of the game mechanics might be fun to reinvent EFS around.

The major gameplay differences right now are that Wesnoth has no economy/strategic level, no stacking, multiple attack dialogue, and might favor a smaller scale. I don't think there's anything there that's insurmountable. On the plus side, the opportunity could be used to streamline some aspects of EFS combat and production, perhaps make planet conquest more abstract.

At least at first, the star map could just be a very complex hex map, with star lanes hemmed in by impassable hexes.

The tech tree and diversity of units would stay, but in addition the level upgrades from Wesnoth could be used to raise units to different house 'ranks' of forces: Regular, Special, Elite, Imperial, by changing the color of the sprites and adding banners, and by specializing standard units into commanders, heroes, etc. This would create a nice dynamic where an Imperial Infantry Legion with a Heroics emblem could beat a Regular Armor Legion.

Anyways, please consider.

-J. Method

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Shocker » Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:28 pm

Do you have a link to the engine home page?
Long Live EFS!

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Shocker » Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:30 pm

I've been looking at game engines but everything seems to be 3-D, real time, or first person shooter.

Does anyone have a link to a good 2D engine that would work for turn based strategy games?

- Shocker.
Long Live EFS!

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Kosh2 » Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:36 pm

I think there is no game engine download, but you could download game sourcecode
http://www.wesnoth.org/

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby lordmoore » Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:25 pm

Here's another game engine that might work: http://www.clanlib.org/intro.html
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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby lordmoore » Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:32 pm

Actually, there is a freeware game or two that could be adapted to fit our needs.
Got excited when I saw a game named Overlord, but it wasn't the game a remember playing a VERY long time ago (besides that was a commercial game).
Enemies strengthen you.

Allies weaken.

I tell you this in the hope that it will help you understand why I act as I do in full knowledge that great forces accumulate in my Empire but with one wish--the wish to destroy me.

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Grimly » Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:43 pm

Unfortunately none of the download or screenshot links work. At least for me. On the other hand, I like Wesnoth a lot. It's very straightforward and the combat system definitely WORKS, although my cursor movement gets a little mushy. That game has no stacking, however, and EFS without stacking would need more detailed maps. Probably just as well. You'd have to practice combined arms operations by means of one-two punches.

I have a 2-part question that may be dumb, but here it goes.

(1) Can the efs.exe file not be hacked (I mean technically, not legally)? I understand that source code is compiled to make an .exe file---is there no process of uncompiling? Not that I'm up to it if there is.

(2)Has anyone ever inquired with HDI about releasing their source code? Especially now that Noble Armada has been shelved, plainly these people can't release an EFS game to save their lives, and will never use the code they have. Clearly they have no fundamental problem with hacking, or they would not have left the game unfinished. I know some of us have been in touch with them before, but with each passing year their hoarding of an aging, buggy piece of code becomes more irrational. Seems to me there is enough savvy among the members of this forum to form a legitimate open-source project. I read on the Wesnoth site that the code for Steel Panthers was released. Maybe the difference is that no one has a copyright on WW2 . . . and the Wesnoth people can't copyright orcs.

???
Grimly

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Macroz » Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:22 pm

(1) Short answer, yes it can be hacked. Long answer, compilation is a largely irreversible one-way mapping from source code to binary code. Meaning that a lot of important information is lost. Lets just say that reading somebody else's code and understanding it is already an effort so for a game of this complexity modifying the binary code is way too much effort, IMHO.

(2) Using the EFS source, some changes would become easy. It is not exactly true that Steel Panthers was released free. Two hobbyist groups did get rights to make their own non-profit versions and indeed quite successfully did so. A similar thing happened with the Falcon 4.0 source after it was extensively hacked in binary form.

My personal take is that the most difficult part of a clone project isn't actually the part that using Wesnoth, Clanlib, Xconq, FreeCiv or FreeOrion engine would solve. I find that making a sensible model of the game world is the most difficult part. Making user interfaces is a relatively well understood field (even though I'm not satisfied with any approaches but that's another story).

And as for legal issues, I wont do anything Fading Suns without Holistic approval but it's too early to think about it.

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Shocker » Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:21 am

I think Tiberius or someone he knew tried to get HDI to release the SW and the there was some contract with SegaSoft that prevented them from doing anything.

The SegaSoft contract had a 5 year limit if I remember correctly. It might be up right now.

I think someone would need to drop $50k to convince HDI to release the game code and they would most likely want to have some creative rights in any "offical" version 2.0.

There are great books on game architecture and how to code the best C++ game structures.

Just my opinion.

- Shocker.
Long Live EFS!

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Grimly » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:01 am

Interesting, and good to know. Anybody got $50K lying around?

More seriously, I see there are free tools for C++ around. But MS only gives away the latest, and I have Win98 so can't use v2003. If anyone has tips on such things, let us all know. I know little about programming in C++, but I'm motivated to learn as much as i can without becoming an actual programmer . . . I like Wesnoth, and its ZOC system and on-the-spot upgrading of units. I'd have to steal the art, though. :(
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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Macroz » Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:02 am

Well there are other free C++ compilers around. If you are interested in porting to Linux, Mac or others, I would recommend GCC (for Windows use the Cygwin or MinGW ports).

If you aren't specifically interested in that programming language but want to get something quickly done, I would point you to Ruby or for more libraries Python. They are much easier to work with to get something interesting done. My personal guideline is that only the third implementation (of anything) can begin to be any good so I wouldn't worry about being compatible with others. In fact sketching formulas and game logic would be very useful and using so called scripting languages should be a given for the game logic part of any new EFS project.

Shocker, I haven't found any good C++ game books. They all seem to be caught up in the low level side of things. Of course game design and high level implementation aren't exactly a science at the moment. So if you are not a graphics or audio programmer or want something other than absolute basics, I find there are no good books available.

EDIT: Btw, if you need any help on programming or installing these things or want to discuss some designs, you can do it on these forums (I check them daily) or use my mail or instant messenger accounts.

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Grimly » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:00 pm

Great, thanks!
Grimly

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Kosh2 » Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:25 pm

If you use MingW in Windows I advised you to download the IDE Bloodshed Dev-C++
http://www.bloodshed.net/dev/devcpp.html
(you can even download MingW+Dev-C++ in only one pack)(and there is an update tool that allows you to download some interesting & free developers pack)

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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby cy387_lk » Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:25 am

Hmm... Wanted to make a post since the beginning of this thread.

I'm interested. Maybe I'll tell you some VERY interesting stuff soon and a bunch of possibilities with examples. All depends on how the things would go next 2 weeks.
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Re: Use Wesnoth as Engine?

Postby Intaweb » Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:25 am

I think EFS without stacks would be better. The units are "Legions" after all. I think a Panzer general sytle combat system would be best.

On the other hand when you have armys of hundreds of thousands raging accross multiple planets, "combined arms" "flanking" and even "tactics" belong to a scale far smaller.


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