Some interesting results after heavy tweaking

a place to discuss it

Moderators: Deathifier, Sukayo

User avatar
Eightball Maniac
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Holding the line

Postby Eightball Maniac » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:20 pm

Yeah, universal warehouse immediately kills any resource problems as soon as you get any of the ministries, which is why I recommend leaving it off. The AI always has universal warehouse on for itself, so the on/off switch only works for players.

The map indeed has issues. I mentioned somewhere that I'd forgotten to add rebels to many planets, so such worlds are easily taken. The ruins on Hazat's homeworld and other planets are not directly controlled with the map editor, other than where they are placed. As far as I know, what you get out of ruins is somewhat random. I haven't seen any place to adjust what comes out of ruins, but I may have missed something.

I can offer a few tips for beefing up the AI, if you like. Some things to consider:

Resource cities are obviously the most important so it can build more cities and units - it doesn't matter if you give them cities on different planets, as the AI always uses the universal warehouse.

Labs are important so it researches more quickly and can maintain techs it already researched. The AI will lose tech if it doesn't have enough labs, just like players.

More landers are extremely important, as the AI doesn't always protect them effectively.

Spread some extra scepters out among unconquered planets. The AI is more likely to spread to other worlds if it knows a scepter is present.

Question in your first post you have a picture of stigmata .. How did you do that? Id like to be able to peak at what the Ai has did so can decide on what to give em...


You can view all planets by entering the Byzantium II screen showing the ministries and typing HDIVIEW.

theonlystd
Infantery
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:58 pm

Postby theonlystd » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:41 am

Eightball Maniac wrote:Yeah, universal warehouse immediately kills any resource problems as soon as you get any of the ministries, which is why I recommend leaving it off. The AI always has universal warehouse on for itself, so the on/off switch only works for players.

The map indeed has issues. I mentioned somewhere that I'd forgotten to add rebels to many planets, so such worlds are easily taken. The ruins on Hazat's homeworld and other planets are not directly controlled with the map editor, other than where they are placed. As far as I know, what you get out of ruins is somewhat random. I haven't seen any place to adjust what comes out of ruins, but I may have missed something.

I can offer a few tips for beefing up the AI, if you like. Some things to consider:

Resource cities are obviously the most important so it can build more cities and units - it doesn't matter if you give them cities on different planets, as the AI always uses the universal warehouse.

Labs are important so it researches more quickly and can maintain techs it already researched. The AI will lose tech if it doesn't have enough labs, just like players.

More landers are extremely important, as the AI doesn't always protect them effectively.

Spread some extra scepters out among unconquered planets. The AI is more likely to spread to other worlds if it knows a scepter is present.

Question in your first post you have a picture of stigmata .. How did you do that? Id like to be able to peak at what the Ai has did so can decide on what to give em...


You can view all planets by entering the Byzantium II screen showing the ministries and typing HDIVIEW.


Ah good to know the Ai uses Universal warehouse no matter what.. We'll keep it on then wasnt sure on that.

Ah that is strange.. As said all the ruins on Hazat in the game im talking about had a Cruiser,Dessy,Lander and some miltia and with some arty.

I had no problems beating these ruins obviously and by time it was done i had a fleet that could of went toe to toe with the Imperial Fleet or the Church very easrly...Cause if you beat a stack with space units on it you get said units..



And thanks for the AI tips.. Definalty use them




edit-Just checked all the AI


They appear to have been spending all there metal building mostly subs and other sea units. Any idea what might cause that?

User avatar
Eightball Maniac
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Holding the line

Postby Eightball Maniac » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:37 am

Most sea units are buildable from the start of the game, so they probably choose those over the weaker tanks and such. I've already been planning on removing the subs from AI use, but like you noticed, they build a lot of ships.

Also note that engineers require a lot of metal: 100 to be exact, more than even a battleship. This ties up lots of metal as well.

theonlystd
Infantery
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:58 pm

Postby theonlystd » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:11 am

Eightball Maniac wrote:Most sea units are buildable from the start of the game, so they probably choose those over the weaker tanks and such. I've already been planning on removing the subs from AI use, but like you noticed, they build a lot of ships.

Also note that engineers require a lot of metal: 100 to be exact, more than even a battleship. This ties up lots of metal as well.
Yea but that seems to be all they were building in that game.. But i went and edited out Naval units and that seems to help.




Any tips for the Editor? It seems pretty iffy.. Half the time it doesnt seem to save the changes i make on a planet.

And when i finally manage to get it to save.. The galaxy blinks Red when i load up a game with it...


:?

User avatar
Eightball Maniac
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Holding the line

Postby Eightball Maniac » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:50 am

Which editor are you using? I only use the map editor found on the bottom of this page, and I haven't had many problems.

If you use the EFS Editor listed here, I'm afraid I can't help you. I haven't used it in years, since I first tried it out.

theonlystd
Infantery
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:58 pm

Postby theonlystd » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:45 am

Eightball Maniac wrote:Which editor are you using? I only use the map editor found on the bottom of this page, and I haven't had many problems.

If you use the EFS Editor listed here, I'm afraid I can't help you. I haven't used it in years, since I first tried it out.
Was using the map editor but seem to have gotten around those 2 issues

mosinski
Infantery
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:05 pm

Postby mosinski » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:24 pm

Theres a few more of us that had EFS eons ago and still play it. It was a very unique game. I've restored my copy thanks to others threads on the forum. Still haven't found a Hyperion copy since the zip files on the website seem to be corrupted (tried on 2 diff comps).

Once I find the Hyperion version I will certainly try your version it sounds great!

User avatar
Eightball Maniac
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Holding the line

Postby Eightball Maniac » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:55 am

Welcome to the forum!

I just downloaded the latest version of Hyperion from here without any problems. Is this the same place you tried downloading from?

mosinski
Infantery
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:05 pm

Postby mosinski » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:29 am

Yep they download but the zips are unrecognizable. I emailed Matt and he checked the website and had the same result as I did. But he did email me the zips I needed and all is good.

Thank you :)

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:56 am

I was looking for the updated editor on the hyperion page but the link was not downloading properly. so, I e-mailed one of the developers and got a real working copy! If anyone wants it, they can e-mail me at enx_@hotmail.com and i will give you the working rar.

User avatar
Eightball Maniac
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Holding the line

Postby Eightball Maniac » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:26 am

It's about time for a progress report, so here we go!

The map:

The previous map was a bit too random in unit placement; an entire stack of elite tanks here, a half-and-half stack of green infantry and artillery there, etc. Now, the map has a lot more unit mixture. There are full stacks, partial stacks of various sizes, and even single units here and there.

Green, expert, and elite troops are mixed together semi-randomly. While one stack might be made up of green reinforcements, another will have a mix of experienced and green units, while yet another might be an elite palace guard with a few less experienced units beefing up their numbers.

There are fewer high-tech units at the start of the game than before, but they are still around. Most troops on the map are relatively basic: standard infantry, scout and medium tanks, the lower tech aircraft, sea units, and garrison guns.
Mid-tech units are somewhat common (depending on planet), which includes powered armor legions, assault legions, battle and assault tanks, hovercraft, assault guns, and rocket artillery.
High-tech units exist, but are rare (some planets have several, some have none). These include Marauders, Rangers, Shock Legions, mega tanks, and second gen aircraft.
Space ships are actually common at start, but mainly destroyers and below.

--------------
Before you scoff at the idea of advanced units at start, there are some things to keep in mind.

First, you will lose many of these units in the defense of your territory. Rebels are very common on most planets, and they will happily destroy you if you give them the chance. These rebels represent barbarians, lesser houses, hostile portions of the major houses (there are a couple civil wars on some worlds), and assorted riff raff. I would have liked to have different factions for all of these, but due to game mechanics they are lumped together as rebels.

These miscreants have many of the same toys you have. If you try to hoard your greatest units in hope of using them against future enemies, you will find the rebels quickly obliterating the lesser troops you throw at them. Consider yourself warned!

Second, these advanced units represent valued equipment preserved after the fall of the Second Republic. Just because the high-tech empire fell doesn't mean that all of its creations suddenly vanished.

Third, most of these units cannot be replaced until you get the chance to research them, which will be a long, long time in some cases.

Fourth and finally, all these advanced units add up to an incredible maintenance fee in both firebirds and food. You will have to use them against the rebels (which will always lead to losses) or disband some of them if you want to have any firebirds in your treasury.
--------------

The planets themselves are seeing changes as well. While the map is still based on the historical map, almost every planet is seeing some sort of change. This could be the removal or addition of resources and cities, or serious alterations of entire continents. However, the serious changes are usually to bring a planet in line with the planet maps of Fading Suns lore, though sometimes a change is specifically done to improve gameplay against the AI (like a narrow land bridge added between continents so they can attack your cities).

There is often a story of some sort unfolding on a planet (or several). This ranges from a rogue inquisitor and his band of fanatics holding the local cathedral, to a full-scale war against Kurgans or Vuldrok across several worlds (Hazat and Hawkwood worlds, respectively). I did this not only to reflect Fading Suns events, but also to add additional interest to the planets.

Houses control many more worlds than they do in vanilla EFS, though all the worlds they do have are theirs in Fading Suns lore. For example, House Hawkwood has Delphi, Gwynneth, Leminkainen, and Ravenna, while the Hazat have Aragon, Sutek, and Vera Cruz. Most house worlds will have to deal with the rebel hordes if they want to stay in control.

The houses also have land on worlds they do not control, and many worlds have multiple houses in residence (or all houses, in a few cases). This is to both reflect their holdings in Fading Suns lore and to increase interaction between houses for gameplay purposes. A few worlds are still unclaimed (by the houses), though.

The rest:

Everything else is currently taking a back seat while I work on the map. Eventually I plan to do an overhaul of the units (types, stats) and technology. I'll also have to update the Manowitz files eventually, but probably not anytime soon. I also need to find a name for the mod at some point!

The primary goal of this mod is to provide an entertaining experience against the AI. While it is not meant for muliplay, there is no reason it couldn't be used for that as well; it might be a lot of fun with other players.

Lesser goals include modification of the units and the tech tree. This means minor adjustments, major adjustments, and a few new units. I'd like the tech tree to take longer to conquer, but the AI has trouble with certain changes. I also need to clean up the tech tree, as it is currently a bit messy from my somewhat random changes.

Buildings and what they are used for hasn't changed much (except for unit production), and probably never will. The exception to this is the University. While I may end up not using it, I'd like to implement it as an Academy, a place to train better versions of units. I'd really prefer this as fully trained (elite) units, but that doesn't seem to be possible. Instead, it will be a few regular units with higher stats.
One likely candidate is the standard Infantry legion (or possibly Heavy Infantry). It will take longer to build than the regular unit (and possibly require more resources), but will be more effective in battle than its mundane counterpart.

The fun part is that the Academy cannot be built; you must capture it if you want the improved units. They are also rare, so you will not find it on every world, and a house might find that it has none at all. One place that does have an Academy is Aragon: it represents the famous Aragon Military Academy.

In the (distant) future I might make additional maps, both modified copies of this map and new, random maps. Modified maps would include one for each house; you merely pick the corresponding map for the house you want to play (specifically for single play). The house you pick would have a much weaker start than the other houses, meant to give the AI an advantage.
Other modified maps might be different scenarios: A massive Symbiot incursion, a huge push against the Known Worlds by a united barbarian front, a crusade against the barbarian worlds, a game starting after the Third Republic is declared, etc. Lots of possibilities.

To wrap up, there will not be a release any time soon. I want to finish this map and at least do some minor unit adjustments. When I do make a release, I intend to make a new thread with all the necessary info, and hopefully have an actual name for the mod.

Comments? Suggestions? Post 'em here.

leparsell
Infantery
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:22 am

re: problem with tweaks

Postby leparsell » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:28 am

Hey,

Of all the mods/tweaks, i've thus far enjoyed yours the most. I've played through twice, once with hazat, and once with Hawkwood. Both times I got a rather significant way through the game, having filled what would on earth probably cover a continent full of cities (labs, production, ect). The AI does the same, especially on the planet to the south-east of Byzantium II, Criticorum (sp), where they honestly have more units and cities than most of the other noble houses.

Regardless, my problem is that, at some point, the game reaches a point where it freezes during the time when it is moving from one player or another. Generally this happens on Decodos, but that can change. I've read elsewhere that this might be from a critical mass of buildings that the game just can't handle. Its not that the time is thinking for a long period of time. The game literally halts itself and is dead in the water. I've replayed the turns, tried different courses of action, started a few turns back and tried something different, ect.

Of course, maybe I don't need 50 labs. But its so fun to have them!

Madrigal
Tank commander
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:25 pm

Postby Madrigal » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:28 pm

interesting but strange, because I have on the contrary a problem with the AI not building any engineer (or perhaps 1 every 20 turns) and I'm searching for a solution to the problem...

I have been discussing that and others possible concepts with Eightball Maniac by mail recently.

Bfriudo
Fighter pilot
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:18 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Bfriudo » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:32 am

I have a different problem. I have played Li Halan and my brother Hazat; it seems like the main activity of rebels is focused on Criticorum while most of the other planets are empty. Rebels hold cities but no units are defending, resulting in a two-turn world conquest. We gave a try with other houses and nearby rebel-controlled planets are missing units as well, it's like advancing on a ghost planet. Is there something wrong with the version I have downloaded?

Thanks for the big effort on this game anyway. I have played many mods by now and I must admit it's been a great work from you all. Been a long since I first played this, it's nice to see such a community.

User avatar
Eightball Maniac
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Holding the line

Re: re: problem with tweaks

Postby Eightball Maniac » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:01 am

Some serious activity happening here! I'll answer all three posts in one, so read on.

leparsell wrote:Of all the mods/tweaks, i've thus far enjoyed yours the most. I've played through twice, once with hazat, and once with Hawkwood. Both times I got a rather significant way through the game, having filled what would on earth probably cover a continent full of cities (labs, production, ect). The AI does the same, especially on the planet to the south-east of Byzantium II, Criticorum (sp), where they honestly have more units and cities than most of the other noble houses.


Thanks, though it's quite high praise for a highly unfinished and partially broken mod!

Criticorum actually has all of its cities and units from the start of the game, since rebels never build anything. Criticorum, among other planets, has far too many units for its own good. It can be fun to invade, though (since it's one of the few rebel planets with any units!).

leparsell wrote:Regardless, my problem is that, at some point, the game reaches a point where it freezes during the time when it is moving from one player or another. Generally this happens on Decodos, but that can change. I've read elsewhere that this might be from a critical mass of buildings that the game just can't handle. Its not that the time is thinking for a long period of time. The game literally halts itself and is dead in the water. I've replayed the turns, tried different courses of action, started a few turns back and tried something different, ect.

Of course, maybe I don't need 50 labs. But its so fun to have them!


Yep, an unfortunate encounter. City or unit overload is the likely cause. If you can't get through with reloading or moving units differently, it may be lost. Try not moving any units at all, as that sometimes worked for me.

Madrigal wrote:interesting but strange, because I have on the contrary a problem with the AI not building any engineer (or perhaps 1 every 20 turns) and I'm searching for a solution to the problem...


It usually builds 1-2 each engineer cycle for me (every 4 turns), but sometimes doesn't. I'm still testing, though I have a feeling it may be my map...

Bfriudo wrote:I have a different problem. I have played Li Halan and my brother Hazat; it seems like the main activity of rebels is focused on Criticorum while most of the other planets are empty. Rebels hold cities but no units are defending, resulting in a two-turn world conquest. We gave a try with other houses and nearby rebel-controlled planets are missing units as well, it's like advancing on a ghost planet. Is there something wrong with the version I have downloaded?


I simply forgot to add rebels to most of the rebel/unclaimed planets before releasing the mod. Massive mistake, that.

Bfriudo wrote:Thanks for the big effort on this game anyway. I have played many mods by now and I must admit it's been a great work from you all. Been a long since I first played this, it's nice to see such a community.


Lots of great modding effort done for EFS over the years. It's a shame that most of the old community has moved on, though a few of them pop in from time to time. Fortunately, there are new members joining (and posting) periodically. Welcome to the forum, folks!


Return to “Fixing it ourself”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests