FORUM MESSAGE

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Mike
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Mike » Fri Mar 21, 2003 11:42 pm

I agree with the sentiments stated above. I sent my thoughts to Klaus directly rather than posting them here, but we should all think about the fact that the right we have to say these things here and elsewhere was because brave men and women of many different nations have been willing to lay down their lives in something greater than themselves. Regardless of if you believe this war is right or wrong, pray for the men and women fighting it and for the Iraqi civilians who are caught in the middle of it. The only bright side of all of this is that life will be better for the Iraqi civilians when this is over.

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Macroz
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Macroz » Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:53 am

My reaction to it is like to an off-topic post, annoying. I was not very amused when www.tomshardware.com posted a huge poster when Schumacher won F1 championship nor have I been very amused by overly large post 9/11 banners of any kind either. It's not my decision, obviously, but I think there are better ways to express one's views (like mailing your representative). Let's just hope the world eventually evolves into paradise. The sooner the better.

Loki
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Loki » Sat Mar 22, 2003 2:56 am

I agree with Mike and Tiberius except I don't feel like being so understanding with Borek. I have no patience with punks like you Klaus. In fact I wish you were here right now. I'd love to shove your little Slovakian dick up your ass. That's my right to say this...right?!?...since we are mixing politics with, once was, a fine site.
Semper Fi you sanctimonious PUSSY!

Lothgoradin
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Lothgoradin » Sat Mar 22, 2003 3:08 am

I do not agree with the post either, Saddam has gone too far in threatening America with chemical and biological weapons, so therefore, war is justified, for protection of our way of life. Also, not one person complained about the fact that we were hunting Bin Laden and bombing Afganistan because they harbored Bin Laden. Yet someone has a problem when ANOTHER asshole harbors Bin Laden (Read US intelligence reports around last summer saying that Saddam is not only harboring Bin Laden, but also assisting him in his terror campaign against the US)

In truth I belive that Bush is not going far enough, or sweeping Iraq for Saddam fast enough. We have the technology to seek and destroy, lets use it. We can destroy every Iraqi military outpost and every military leader within a matter of hours, and we have already dragged this on to a few days. We have rapid deployment personel capable of dropping in and taking out whatever they needed to in a few hours, use them.

I do like this forum for the purposes of EFS, but I do not beleive with the message I encountered when I first logged onto this site. However, that is the site's host's views and this is the last you will hear from me on political issues.

The Darkmage

Russell
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Russell » Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:43 am

I do not feel political views should be put on a forum, but I also think such a harsh lashing out at Klaus is extremely childish. Especially from one member in this topic in particular. No matter what political message is put on these forums, I will pay no heed and disregard it, whether I agree, or disagree. To those that take such extreme offense: get over it.

Loki
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Loki » Sat Mar 22, 2003 4:30 pm

.."get over it"? No I won't...not when my country is slandered...that is what he did even if you don't see it. Would I actually put "Borek's dick in his ass"...probably not(ha ha), but I do want to emphasize my anger at passive little people like him and yourself(probably) who continue with this charade that the US is looking for world domination or oil interests or this war is unjust. Hogwash! Let's protest while our boys are fighting over in Iraq...let's let people slander our great nation without any rebuttal?!? You are a fool when you are more concerned about the "childish" words I have used but Klaus is not because he has used a community forum to denigrate our nation. Evidently you don't see it. Whatever, but I won't "get over it". Sit down and push a couple more pixels around, reach for that coke and piece of pizza...it'll help you to forget and by the way it's courtesy of the men and women fighting for you over there. Semper Fi, Loki (Sgt. USMC 1982-86)

Russell
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Russell » Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:03 pm

Loki, if you believe I am against the war, then you have already defeated your own argument and made a fool of yourself, because I am not against the war, nor am I protesting anything. We have the most powerful nation in the world. We make up 40% of the world economy. If you find you need to defend a country as powerful as the US, from one person, on a computer game forum, then so be it. It is still childish in my eyes. I support the war, for the freedom of the Iraqi people. I do not see my own freedom in jeopardy. I would take up arms during World War 2 for my own freedom, but this is a war for someone else's freedom. I support and respect the soldiers, but I also respect the opinion's of those that disagree. You clearly are intolerant of such people, which I find shameful to our great nation of free speech and acceptance of one another.

Loki
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Loki » Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:20 pm

...it's not about intolerance Russell...it's about standing up for what is right. You did not...you only said I was childish in my comments...and did not refute what Borek has said on the board about your nation...whatever you call it...it's passivity or selective allegiance in your case. A passive American...man you are a case. I won't engage in semantics anymore. My favorite lurking site is bad to the taste. Borek, take me off this list. I don't want to be associated with this site or you again. Tiberious, I look forward to your new forum. Loki

Russell
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Russell » Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:43 pm

Loki, I have nothing against you. My respect for Mike has only increased, as he was able to handle himself in a respectful, but disagreeable manner. Tiberius was as well, though I think he is overreacting, but I certainly respect his decisions. I felt what you said was a childish thing to say, and disrespectful. You even say you agree with them, but do not feel you should be so understanding. You are casting away understanding, and that is intolerance and ignorance!

I am not a passive American. I do not need to "refute" other people's opinions simply because they disagree with me. That is arguing for the sake of arguing. Not even the leaders of our country stoop to such levels, and I do not believe our soldiers would insult people that oppose the war so...brashly. I respect that you stand up for our country, but I thought the way you did it was childish.

If Tiberius indeed does create a new forum, I will visit that forum and this forum. Already it is very difficult to play EFS games, and now there will be a split in the community over political viewpoints.

I wish Klaus did not use the forum to express himself (and if he did, I wish he had put it in a regular post), but I will not simply leave a forum I have been at for years over something so little. There are hundreds of thousands of protesters in our own country, that actually hinder traffic and the like, and Klaus has a simple statement, and suddenly there is a great rage against him. Klaus himself is not understanding of the people that wish he would take that down, and some of you are not understanding of his own viewpoint. I believe America should be a place for civilized debate and not hostility and rejection of other people's opinions in such a crude fashion. If this is too much to ask of the people of a great nation, then it deeply saddens me.

Mike
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Mike » Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:59 am

Russ et al,
When I was a midshipman, I had DI's like Loki who taught me the meaning of loyalty and being a member of the US military. They are unwavering in their beliefs and very protective of their country. I count myself lucky to have been taught by such men and it has shaped my personal and professional beliefs both in and out of the service. Understand his viewpoint, just like you understand Klaus's. I don't agree with Klaus and have said so here and in person to him. Hopefully, his country will never need the US to help them like we have had to help so many others, but if they do, you can bet the Marines will be there at the front, ready to help or die trying. Let this go.

Russell
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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Russell » Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:38 am

Mike, protecting your country against people that attempt to harm it, and insulting another because of their views, are two completely different things. I believe America has been constructed on ideals that free speech is encouraged, and acceptance of others is a good thing.

I have had family members in the past fight and die for our country, and also cousins and friends that fight for us right now. There is quite a lot of military background in my family. I myself am not in the military, but if our country was ever attacked, you can be sure I would join up. Loyalty, and blind loyalty are seperate ideas.

I understand Loki's viewpoint, as well as Klaus's. But personally, I take offense to intolerance of other's opinions and thoughts. If Klaus came into this topic and began insulting people, I would be equally as dissapointed with him. I could explain my personal life experiences about why I feel so strongly like this if you care, but I would not discuss such things openly on this forum.

I hate to see such a division in the EFS community over something such as this. If Klaus had put a message supporting the US, I am sure no one would've complained.

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Re: FORUM MESSAGE

Postby Sukayo » Sun Mar 23, 2003 9:04 am

It looks like i need to explain what i feel and think:

First: I am wondering why i cannot use my side to explain my opinion to a actual thema. Others can place theire opinion here under that topic, i would never go so far to call them "xxxxx" for doing so.

Second: The EFS community is small, splitting it of will lead to ... hm i hope only less PBEM games started.

Third: If you dislike this forum because his owner explains his opinion in this way, then call not longer "we bring freedom to the world".

I will support the EFS community further, but not keeping my opinion for me only.


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