Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

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Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Fri May 28, 2004 8:01 pm

I'm going to be adding a separate Subject for each galaxy included in the Hyperion Mod for comments on that specific galaxy.

This will help me organize and work on changes to a specific galaxy as well as add additional awareness to players that there are several different galaxies available for play in Hyperion games.

Don't forget that there is a readme file for each galaxy to provide a little background to players before they begin playing.

If you have any comments on the Corinthian Galaxy, post them in this thread and I'll take a look at them and see about making changes to that galaxy.

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sat May 29, 2004 2:35 am

The latest Gamma includes the following updates to the Corinthian Galaxy:

1. Noticed a 1% Health Flagship Arisan floating in space over Byzantium II. This should have been the Imperial Guard Flagship and so I have changed it to that.
2. Changed the starting Health of the Imperial Eye and Imperial Fleet Flagships to 1%. Their Health should be at 21% by the time the first Ministries are assigned (hopefully they don't get destroyed in the meantime).

That's it!

I need to look into income generation some more as it does seem like things are still a bit too easy.

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:16 am

I have been playing House Hazat and things seem to be just about the right amount of difficulty.

I have not played the other sides yet, but the Hazat side is an excellent challenge for an experienced player!

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby herophant » Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:09 pm

I played halan a bit recently. I Dont know if it is intentional but they got mayor food problems on Kish. With the starting forces food will run out in a few turns even with buying from the league and capturing all the farms the first turns.

Only real way around it as i couldnt find enogh transports to ship troops of planet was to disband a huge number of units.

Do cities use food?

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:49 pm

herophant:

I played halan a bit recently. I Dont know if it is intentional but they got mayor food problems on Kish. With the starting forces food will run out in a few turns even with buying from the league and capturing all the farms the first turns.

Only real way around it as i couldnt find enogh transports to ship troops of planet was to disband a huge number of units.
Don't forget that you have an Arborium on Byzantium II that produces more than enough Food for the inhabitants there. It is really easy to bring Food from Byzantium II to make up for Food shortages on Kish.

Kish has a major surplus in Energy and so you should be able to purchase Food from the League every time they restock even if you don't have enough money by selling excess Energy and then purchasing Food in its place.

Do cities use food?
They sure do, so it best that you capture all Farms first before you start capturing other cities. Kish is a desert world and so is going to have Food problems until you are able to research Arboriums. Augment your Food supply by buying from the League Agora every turn they restock Food and send Food shipments from Byzantium II like I mentioned above and you should be fine.

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:36 pm

So far, I have not had problems with resource production, but I am only to turn 4972 and have been playing House al-Malik this go around. Also, I have been playing with the new EFSHYP.EXE that increases the stocking of the League Agoras and I think it is very important to play with this update.

House al-Malik seems to have a pretty decent setup and can do very well in single-player games. As far as multi-player games, things become more difficult because of the shared planets Quentrand (with Li Halan) and Araindor (with Hawkwood).

Taking out the Rebels on Quentrand is fairly easy, while Araindor is much more difficult, but it is easy to reinforce both planets with troops from Istahkr very early in the game to help with situations on both planets.

al-Malik has a vast space-fairing cargo-carrying capility and can capture another Bulk Hauler on Istahkr. I was also able to capture all Rebel cities on Istahkr on the first turn.

Money is very tight at the beginning even with capturing all the cities on Istahkr. Capturing the Istahkr Church is very important is it will give you at least 3K more Firebirds / turn at the very beginning. Also, capturing the Palace on Quentrand can be very helpful because of the Sceptre there. After I was able to capture the Church on Istahkr (captured on turn 2) and the Palace on Quentrand (Li Halan beat me to it, but the Rebels recaptured it and so I didn't capture it until turn 4 or 5) I had no money problems and I haven't even sold any maps to the Vau.

On Earth, al-Malik has superior armored forces and with care, can easily defend the Fort and starting Farm from the Rebels so long as you stick to defending just those two cities for the first few turns. The key is to know how to divide your forces to optimally cover both cities.

In multi-player games, all the Houses should do much better against the Rebels than the computer players and so Earth becomes even easier than what I have seen (most of the other House's cities are captured by the Rebels, except it seems that Hazat's Guided Missile Frigate is still going around capturing a Rebel city here and there).

al-Malik seems to be a good House to play for an intermediate player.

I did take a peak at the House planets, and they are not doing great, but they are making progress. Hawkwood got the Regency and so Li Halan, Hazat, and Hawkwood have the Ministries and their growth has accelerated since that acquisition.

From all this play, I have seen a need to tweak the Corinthian Galaxy and I'll list those tweaks in another post...

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:51 pm

Okay, I've tweaked the Corinthian Galaxy in the Gamma Release some more:

All Ministry Sceptres have now been changed to Flagship Engineers. This is so that once a House acquires a Ministery they don't have more votes in the next election.

Imperial Fleet Noblesse Elitesse has been changed to a Blademaster. In the Hyperion Beta version of the Corinthian Galaxy, a sole Noblesse Elitesse took out a significant portion of the Rebel contingent on Earth and in the Gamma, Noblesse Elitesse's are even more powerful. This also will prevent the exploitation of the Imperial Fleet to attack Aragon, for example.

Tweaked starting units on Earth:
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It seemed like Li Halan's starting units were too weak and so I've given them at least one each of all the Church ground forces (i.e. Inquisitor, Monk, Psy Laser Fighter, etc.).</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hazat's forces remain unchanged</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Decados' forces were tweaked, 1 Strategic Bomber -> Neutron Bomber, a couple of Tracker Legions -> Rebel Partisans.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hawkwood's forces tweaked, 2 Laser Fighers -> 2 Killer Gunships</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">al-Malik's forces remain unchanged.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Rebels - changed a few units (i.e. Fertilizer Specialist in Palace -> Marauder Legion, and a few Fortifications were changed into a couple of different Level 2 Amphibious units). Changed orbiting Rebel Fleet from 3 Cybermoph Destroyers and 3 Cybermorph Frigates -> 1 Cybermorph Raider, 1 Cybermorph Cadiz Dreadnought, 1 Cybermorph Vlad Cruiser, 1 Cybermorph Destroyer, 1 Cybermorph Frigate, and 1 Cybermorph Space Carrier. This gives the orbiting fleet more balance and also means that players need to keep their units within 5 hexes of their PTS defenses otherwise they're going to get blasted.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm hoping these changes make it a little bit easier for computer House players while at the same time making it a little bit more difficult so that for human players it is about the same level of difficulty that it is now.

Those are the only changes for now, and these are included in the latest Gamma release.

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Kargard » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:23 pm

Well,it's true that my noblesse elitesse was little overpowered,on the other hand,id note that without the noblesse elitesse,not only no fleet unit's would ever touch the fort's(okay,maybe the almost sole one could be taken down by larger amount of high tech unit's),but it would take ages to actually start nailing the fort's.
Also the close attack,well duh now no one can ever touch them with any starting unit's..that's pretty sad.
How about reducing their armor at the same time if you are giving them those advantage's.No orbital fire touched them fort instance..(btw the rebel fleet in orbit - well,the cybermorph dreadnought might inflict casualties even on plenty of IF ships,just saying..)

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:36 am

Kargard:

Well,it's true that my noblesse elitesse was little overpowered,on the other hand,id note that without the noblesse elitesse,not only no fleet unit's would ever touch the fort's(okay,maybe the almost sole one could be taken down by larger amount of high tech unit's),but it would take ages to actually start nailing the fort's.
Also the close attack,well duh now no one can ever touch them with any starting unit's..that's pretty sad.
How about reducing their armor at the same time if you are giving them those advantage's.No orbital fire touched them fort instance..(btw the rebel fleet in orbit - well,the cybermorph dreadnought might inflict casualties even on plenty of IF ships,just saying..)
Believe it or not, I can take down PTS Forts with Artillery, ATG's, Snipers, and Fanatic Legions. I attacked a Rebel Mine with 1 Rebel Partisan and 1 PTS Fort and a full stack of 20 of the above 4 different types of troops knocked both the Rebel Partisan and PTS Fort down to about 50% Health. I followed up with my powerful starting al-Malik stack to finish them off, but if I had another stack of 20 Artillery/ATG's/Snipers/Fanatic Legions, I could probably take them down almost the whole way. If I pepper in some Fertilizer Specialists, I'd have no problem.

Remember, I was also able to attack a Fortification and single-handled destroy it in the Beta. Believe me, the Fortifications and PTS Forts are not indestructible, even with starting troops, but there will be high attrition.

Give it a try and I think you'll find that you can take them down with concentrated firepower and big stacks.

As far as the bombardment, in the Beta, the Ranged Space of space ships is weak compared to the Gamma. Here is a simple example of the differences:

Cybermorph Cadiz Dreadnought - RS:6/50 (beta), 9/137 (gamma)
Cloaking Cadiz Dreadnought - RS:7/50 (beta), 11/137 (gamma)

PTS Fortification - Ar:180 (beta), 162 (gamma)

Ratio 50/180 - 1/4 (beta) 137/162 - 1/2 (gamma)

Average Damage per hit from Level 3/4 Dreadnoughts: 1.8 (beta), 10.4 (gamma)

So you can see that they do an average of almost 6 times more damage per hit than the Beta.

I think you'll find that the Fortifications and PTS Forts are not nearly as powerful as they were in the Beta version.

I think removing the Noblesse Elitesse is probably a good idea to prevent its misuse against Aragon which is only 1 jump away from Cadiz.

Give the new map and Gamma a try and I think you'll find that there are quite a few things that are different between the Beta and the Gamma.

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:27 am

Believe it or not, I can take down PTS Forts with Artillery, ATG's, Snipers, and Fanatic Legions. I attacked a Rebel Mine with 1 Rebel Partisan and 1 PTS Fort and a full stack of 20 of the above 4 different types of troops knocked both the Rebel Partisan and PTS Fort down to about 50% Health. I followed up with my powerful starting al-Malik stack to finish them off, but if I had another stack of 20 Artillery/ATG's/Snipers/Fanatic Legions, I could probably take them down almost the whole way. If I pepper in some Fertilizer Specialists, I'd have no problem.
Okay, it looks like I was wrong about the unit makeup, it was Fanatics, Artillery, ATG's, and 1 Spy and they were able to take out the Rebel Partisan and knock the PTS Fortification down to 78% on my second try (I must have gotten lucky the first time to get the PTS Fort down to about 57%, if I remember correctly).

At any rate, if I was to use Tanks, Tank Killers, and Fertilizer Specialists (not to mention Jet-Propulsion Fighters) - all easily obtainable units, I could take down PTS Forts no problems with probably just 2 full stacks of 20 units with a good mixture.

The key to building good Fortification- / PTS Fortification-busting stacks is this:

Ideally, the units with the highest rank should be the ones that can do the most damage. In my case, the Spy had the highest combination of accuracy and attack strength and so was able to damage the PTS Fort while the PTS Fort had to spend attacks destroying the lower ranked units before it could get to your higher accuracy / damage units.

Ideally, you could use something like 15-18 Militia and pepper in 2-5 Covert Legions and you could take out PTS Forts with just a few stacks of these. Or, throw in a couple of Tank Killers (6/45 Direct at 1/4 on a PTS Fort) and they can start knocking out 1.8% health per hit at a chance to hit of 75%. Starting throwing in some amphibious units and you'll really start doing some damage.

The bottom line is that Fortifications and PTS Fortifications are going to get destroyed, but at least with the change above, they'll take a dozen or so more units with them. :)

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Kargard » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:44 pm

Umm..i was kind of refering to corinthian earth planet.Where are you going to get 20 unit stacks there?the hazat's start with bunch of weaker artillery's,tanks and SPF legions,and one noble.I tested it over again and i never even scratched any fort.Without the fort i cant built engineers and without engineers i cant built chemicals and without chemicals..

So yeah in theory it works,but if the corinthian galaxy stays similiar,it doesnt work much..(unless i can use the ship's as land attack unit's now,not sure if i got that right)

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:52 am

Kargard:

Well, you don't get the units immediately - if you manage to survive on Earth and can make it, say 20 years, then you're probably in the situation where you can start capturing Rebel cities without Fortifications / PTS Fortifications.

If you're using the latest Gamma with the EFSHYP.EXE, then the League will stock up to 250 Chemicals in the Agora as well as 500 Metal. You should be able to build an Engineer and build a Mine in a location to collect Metal and Trace.

Once you've done that, you can start building Engineers if you have at least 7 Chemicals (you can even disband a unit if you can't seem to buy any).

In my current Corinthian game, I am al-Malik and I have managed to stay alive on Earth and capture a lot of the Rebel cities that weren't guarded by Fortifications / PTS Fortifications. I am now concentrating on the remaining cities with Forts / PTS Forts and will see if I can destroy the remaining Rebel units and capture all their cities.

The year is about 4997 or so (so I am into the game a bit), but if the players were all humans, the Rebels would be a lot worse off (but since the Houses are computer players, more cities for me!).

So I think if you are able to stay alive, you can manage to start expanding on Earth and start to harness its resources. One thing you can do is to buy all the resources to construct an Engineer on turn 1, but I didn't do that (not sure why). This would make it so that if your Fort (probably the best place to build an Engineer) could survive the Rebel assaults, then you could build a Mine in just two turns (and then follow up and build another Engineer to get that Chemicals plant going).

I think I was too busy fighting the Rebels on Earth the first few turns and forgot to try to build an Engineer right away.

Anyway, give it a go and let me know how it goes.

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby bfkeil » Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:40 am

I've been playing 1.4g with Li Halan, and Earth has been pretty easy... Using those church units, and the Noble with Blademaster, I have been able to capture all of the rebel cities with ease. I think I held the Palace by the fourth or fifth turn... It was certainly very quick. I don't know how the map started out, but I'm guessing some of the standards I found in the Rebel cities on Earth were originally from Great Houses?

So very quickly I had aquired two standards and a statue... Using the Psych-attacker/Battlemaster combo also yielded quick control of Moonvick and Quentrand. After a few turns, I had 100K, so I attacked the church on Kish, Moonvick, and Quentrand, sueing for peace in the same turn. So now I have a LOT of money coming in every turn, what with tithe-skimming and all.

I don't know how those battles would have gone without battlemaster, so perhaps that is the great balancer for Li Halan, but if you want the rebels to challenge the Li Halan player, you might tone down the number of religious units you give them. Dervishes instead of Warlocks, perhaps.. ?

Also, can someone give me some tips on capturing rebel units? I've read after they rebel, their loyalty goes up so that if you can catch them a second time, you can keep them, but I've never been able to execute a "second catch."

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby bfkeil » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:57 pm

I also think that the Imperial Eye is a little too powerful. With the lander ships that they start out with, you can take almost any rebel city... using the lander alone.

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Re: Hyperion Corinthian Galaxy - Comments

Postby bfkeil » Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:21 am

I'm really sorry to ramble, (some say if I were sorry, I wouldn't continue to do it...) but I just wanted to also mention that I've really been enjoying Corinthian... I think it's really awesome that there is so much to do even on the first turn... The unit pay is moving towards positive, and I haven't finished building any flagships yet, so I don't think that money is completely out of whack... It just takes a while to balance itself out.


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