Game in year 5353 now

A very good patch

Moderator: Matt Caspermeyer

tkobo
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:01 am

Game in year 5353 now

Postby tkobo » Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:51 pm

Well, im now currently playing the longest AND most fun EFS game ive ever played.

The year is 5353,the game is running strong,and im on the way to winning the game the way Ive always wanted too.

I control roughly 1/2 the planets.I have enough ships that can bombard that i can now clear planets of buildings and greatly reduce thier troops in a few turns.This is in adition to those protecting my borders.
Plague bombs seem to be harmless unfortunately.Ive used 8 on on enemy planet and it did almost zero harm.It seems once the cure is researched by an oponnet,plague becomes a myth .

My goal is too control all the planets except the house home planets,the church,the league,the Vau planets,and Nowhere which I will hold the symbiots on.

When this is game is finished and im sure we can pull it off ,myself and 3 friends are gonna start a hotseat game.They are pumped up that the game is running so well :)

By the way ,Is there anyway to enable the symbiots as a player faction and still keep the other houses as player factions?

Matt Caspermeyer
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Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:58 pm

tkobo:

Well, im now currently playing the longest AND most fun EFS game ive ever played.

The year is 5353,the game is running strong,and im on the way to winning the game the way Ive always wanted too.
Wow! That's awesome!

I control roughly 1/2 the planets.I have enough ships that can bombard that i can now clear planets of buildings and greatly reduce thier troops in a few turns.This is in adition to those protecting my borders.
How is your income state? I'd love to see a report on how you've been doing with your income state throughout your game.

Also how you've managed with resources, which ones you've had a surplus of, etc., etc.

Give me lots of details!

Plague bombs seem to be harmless unfortunately.Ive used 8 on on enemy planet and it did almost zero harm.It seems once the cure is researched by an oponnet,plague becomes a myth .
Right - you didn't get a chance to use them before your opponents researched the cure? Plus, if you seed stacks with Plague immune units, you should be able to increase the effectiveness of your Plague Bombs (they do have potent attack statistics, but they are meant for mostly single-use attacks and spreading the Plague).

My goal is too control all the planets except the house home planets,the church,the league,the Vau planets,and Nowhere which I will hold the symbiots on.

When this is game is finished and im sure we can pull it off ,myself and 3 friends are gonna start a hotseat game.They are pumped up that the game is running so well
That is great! Keep me informed of how your game turns out and how far you get!

By the way ,Is there anyway to enable the symbiots as a player faction and still keep the other houses as player factions?
Not that I know about.

Have fun and keep the posts coming!

Matt
Matt

tkobo
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Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby tkobo » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:34 am

Okay, the year is now circa 5440.

"How is your income state? I'd love to see a report on how you've been doing with your income state throughout your game."

Finances are a constant struggle.I need to make adjustments every few turns to avoid going broke.I sell ALOT to the league when i can.I try to maintain a minimum 300k bank.But i cant always do it.I ramp up the bank account before an assault on a new planet and than struggle to maintain positive cash flow til the planet is mine and can offset the expenses reguired to field and maintain the forces used to take it.

"Also how you've managed with resources, which ones you've had a surplus of, etc., etc."

All resources become too scarce IF you take an enemy planet with its buildings mostly intact.
You will end up clicking away for minutes each turn on the "such and such building on such and such planet does not have enough rescources to function" messages.

I now destroy almost every building on a planet before i take possession of it.

On a side note. At some point in the game,the resource records/calculations (amount harvested and amount consumed) fail to add up correctly.
I ran completely out of trace with the information showing a 3k surplus per turn.Playing with the tax setting ,in order to increase resource collection without adding more resource buildings(mines in this case),I found that the resource figures for Trace were for some reason wrong by about 5k at this point.Consuption was NOT showing the correct numbers ,BUT it was using the correct(read as higher) amount.In other words , i was consuming far more trace than the report shows.
Once i figured it out, i kind of laughed.I guess my empire is now so big,that the corruption of those helping me run it was getting out of hand.
I looked for a "Kenneth Lay" unit,but was unable to find and disband it :p
I am now struggling to finish taking aylon so that i can extract every ounce of trace possible out of it.
I am unable to build new units without scrapping old "useless" units for the trace.So almost all the units used in taking Aylon so far have had to be moved from other planets.When i capture units, i usually scrap them right off and then use the trace to build engineers that turn.I have a LARGE stash of engineers waiting to land on Aylon once its secured.
So ,with this in mind,id have to say trace is the only resource that seems scarce.However had the numbers been right, i think i could have built more mines in place of farms/wells and avoided the shortage i now face.
I have no shortage of food or energy.
I also can produce far more star ships and forces than i can afford,so i dont see any shortages on the manmade resoures either.


I am currently taking possesion of Aylon from the Hawkwoods.I have been bombarding from space and advancing slowly on the planet with ground forces for over 60 turns so far.I predict it will take another 30+ to clear cut the last of the buildings and eliminate the Hawkwood forces.

I can only afford to launch and maintain one such assualt at a time.So, this game will take quite a while longer to finish it the way I want to.

Famine I have now discovered is also meaningless.I have most of the remaining hundreds of hawkwood units on Aylon showing themselves as famined.But thier health and morale is completely unaffected by this.

Also adding to my fun,the one house(the yellow colored one)signed an alliance with the hawkwoods and did something i had never seen the ai do before.They launched full 20 unit stacks of space ships and came after me.They did this from 4 planets all at once(one of which they didnt even own).This pushed my space fleets to the limit and i actually had enemy ships inside my borders for about 11 turns.
It also helped my finances as the ships i lost greatly cut down on the pay i had to maintain :p
In the end though, some of thier ships just wandered away.The fleets broke up and they sent small groups wandering all around including more than a few that left my space on thier own.

RA
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Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby RA » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:39 am

What is a Galaxy in which You playing now. Because You playing very long time but you not completly destroy you opponents. And also say, please, the level of dificulty of game - beginning, average or another. I am think, what you are maniak (In good sense of this word - for example - zealot). I am also like this game very well. Not fanatic, but the EFS is incredible game.

tkobo
Fighter pilot
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:01 am

Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby tkobo » Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:34 am

Umm, i was asked that before about the galaxy,i still dont know for sure the answer though.
What i do know is its the default historic one.

I am kind of a EFS fanatic.The game truly is something special, even with all its flaws.
Not sure on the name fo the difficulty setting for this last game.Its been so long since i started it.I can probably figure it out by looking at my traits though.

I have played regular 1.4 ,Hyperion, and Nova.
I "think" i am good,but i am by no means the best out there.

tkobo
Fighter pilot
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:01 am

Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby tkobo » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:41 pm

Okay, game year is now 5500.Trace seems completely broken as it no longer seems able to accumulate.

resources are:
Food 18k con -33k pro -1.8m war
energy 16k con -27k pro -1.5m war
Trace 10k con (must be wrong) -18k pro -0 war (and will NOT accumulate any so far)
exotica 1.1k con -2.2 pro -110k war
chem 10k con -15k pro -1m war
elect 2k con -3.5k pro -200k war
bio 500 con -900 pro -51k war
mono 500 con -800 pro -52k war
diam 500 con -1700 pro -200k war
sing 0 con -19 pro -1.3k war

con = consumed per turn
pro = produced per turn
war = stored or warehoused
- does NOT mean negative,its just used to seperate the figures


I am no longer getting any messages about not having enough resources for such and such facility on such and such planet to function.
It stopped about where the testing had shown it would,at roughly 16k trace produced.
However 2k per turn later and trace is still NOT accumulating.

Matt Caspermeyer
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Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:42 am

Okay, the year is now circa 5440.

"How is your income state? I'd love to see a report on how you've been doing with your income state throughout your game."

Finances are a constant struggle.I need to make adjustments every few turns to avoid going broke.I sell ALOT to the league when i can.I try to maintain a minimum 300k bank.But i cant always do it.I ramp up the bank account before an assault on a new planet and than struggle to maintain positive cash flow til the planet is mine and can offset the expenses reguired to field and maintain the forces used to take it.
This is very useful information. It looks like maintaining a large empire is very difficult as it is meant to be. I am curious, have you been building Nobles and then Sceptors to increase income flow or are you not building and upgrading Sceptors?

"Also how you've managed with resources, which ones you've had a surplus of, etc., etc."

All resources become too scarce IF you take an enemy planet with its buildings mostly intact.
You will end up clicking away for minutes each turn on the "such and such building on such and such planet does not have enough rescources to function" messages.

I now destroy almost every building on a planet before i take possession of it.
Have you tried capturing harvest cities first so that you do not have this problem?

On a side note. At some point in the game,the resource records/calculations (amount harvested and amount consumed) fail to add up correctly.
I ran completely out of trace with the information showing a 3k surplus per turn.Playing with the tax setting ,in order to increase resource collection without adding more resource buildings(mines in this case),I found that the resource figures for Trace were for some reason wrong by about 5k at this point.Consuption was NOT showing the correct numbers ,BUT it was using the correct(read as higher) amount.In other words , i was consuming far more trace than the report shows.
Once i figured it out, i kind of laughed.I guess my empire is now so big,that the corruption of those helping me run it was getting out of hand.
I looked for a "Kenneth Lay" unit,but was unable to find and disband it
I am now struggling to finish taking aylon so that i can extract every ounce of trace possible out of it.
I am unable to build new units without scrapping old "useless" units for the trace.So almost all the units used in taking Aylon so far have had to be moved from other planets.When i capture units, i usually scrap them right off and then use the trace to build engineers that turn.I have a LARGE stash of engineers waiting to land on Aylon once its secured.
So ,with this in mind,id have to say trace is the only resource that seems scarce.However had the numbers been right, i think i could have built more mines in place of farms/wells and avoided the shortage i now face.
I have no shortage of food or energy.
I also can produce far more star ships and forces than i can afford,so i dont see any shortages on the manmade resoures either.
This is interesting. I wonder if you produced so much Trace that it overflowed something. I may do some scaling of resources to lower the amounts produced to solve this problem if that is the case. I certainly need to look into this issue more.

I am currently taking possesion of Aylon from the Hawkwoods.I have been bombarding from space and advancing slowly on the planet with ground forces for over 60 turns so far.I predict it will take another 30+ to clear cut the last of the buildings and eliminate the Hawkwood forces.
What kind of resistance is Hawkwood putting up with as far as forces. Are there lots of Forts and PTS Fortifications or is it a mixture of other units?

For that matter, what is the most advanced unit that you've seen the AI build?

I can only afford to launch and maintain one such assualt at a time.So, this game will take quite a while longer to finish it the way I want to.
Have you thought of eliminating a lot of forces not being used on your "dormant" planets or have you already done that?

Famine I have now discovered is also meaningless.I have most of the remaining hundreds of hawkwood units on Aylon showing themselves as famined.But thier health and morale is completely unaffected by this.
I think computer players are unaffected by famine, but human players are.

Also adding to my fun,the one house(the yellow colored one)signed an alliance with the hawkwoods and did something i had never seen the ai do before.They launched full 20 unit stacks of space ships and came after me.They did this from 4 planets all at once(one of which they didnt even own).This pushed my space fleets to the limit and i actually had enemy ships inside my borders for about 11 turns.
Hey, now that sounds cool - the AI putting up a fight!

It also helped my finances as the ships i lost greatly cut down on the pay i had to maintain
In the end though, some of thier ships just wandered away.The fleets broke up and they sent small groups wandering all around including more than a few that left my space on thier own.
I'm not sure what to do here, it seems the AI lacks focus to follow through with a specific plan, just haphazardly attacking.

Okay, game year is now 5500.Trace seems completely broken as it no longer seems able to accumulate.
Wow! I think you have the record for longest played EFS single-player game!

:)

resources are:
Food 18k con -33k pro -1.8m war
energy 16k con -27k pro -1.5m war
Trace 10k con (must be wrong) -18k pro -0 war (and will NOT accumulate any so far)
exotica 1.1k con -2.2 pro -110k war
chem 10k con -15k pro -1m war
elect 2k con -3.5k pro -200k war
bio 500 con -900 pro -51k war
mono 500 con -800 pro -52k war
diam 500 con -1700 pro -200k war
sing 0 con -19 pro -1.3k war

con = consumed per turn
pro = produced per turn
war = stored or warehoused
- does NOT mean negative,its just used to seperate the figures
I believe these numbers are for the entire galaxy, right? This information will prove very helpful as I tweak harvesting and resource collection.

Also, what Tax rate is this at? If you are collecting this much at a Tax rate of 50% then I have something seriously broken.

I am no longer getting any messages about not having enough resources for such and such facility on such and such planet to function.
It stopped about where the testing had shown it would,at roughly 16k trace produced.
However 2k per turn later and trace is still NOT accumulating.
Looks like I really need to look at resource collection and potentially reduce it.

By the way, is Universal Wherehouse ON or OFF in your game?

Thanks for the comments!

This information and your responses should help me in tweaking this aspect of the Hyperion Gamma.

Matt

P.S. What would really be nice is a way for me to compute the harvesting potential (and hence production potential) of a planet with some sort of tool.
Matt

tkobo
Fighter pilot
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:01 am

Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby tkobo » Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:10 pm

"This is very useful information. It looks like maintaining a large empire is very difficult as it is meant to be. I am curious, have you been building Nobles and then Sceptors to increase income flow or are you not building and upgrading Sceptors?"

Me:I currently have over 40 sceptors,including a few of the (about 10) of the upgraded sceptors.

"Have you tried capturing harvest cities first so that you do not have this problem?"

Me:That wont work, as every house seems to be running in negative resources.
*Except for the church.I will explain at the bottom.

"This is interesting. I wonder if you produced so much Trace that it overflowed something. I may do some scaling of resources to lower the amounts produced to solve this problem if that is the case. I certainly need to look into this issue more"

Me: That was my first thought, but i dont think its the problem as trace was on the edge the whole game for me.I dont beleive I ever had a trace reserve of over 50K.Where if you look at the massive resourves Ive been able to save up in othern the resources,suggests theres something else causing it.And agian, im not really sure, but i believe at this point had the numbers been right, i would have built less farms and wells and might actaully have been able to maintian a small trace reserve.

"What kind of resistance is Hawkwood putting up with as far as forces. Are there lots of Forts and PTS Fortifications or is it a mixture of other units?

For that matter, what is the most advanced unit that you've seen the AI build?"

Me: ive seen alot of shock legions in thier ground forces.BUT they seem to rely far heavier on the differnet types of fortifications .They panet fell by the way.As did 2 more after it.
Im now going after Terra.


"Have you thought of eliminating a lot of forces not being used on your "dormant" planets or have you already done that?"

Me : yup, the planets I dont expect enemy fleets to reach have 10 or less ground forces on them.Not counting nobles and sceptors.

"I think computer players are unaffected by famine, but human players are."

Me: I didnt know that .Is that new? i could have sworn famine could reduce a unit to 25 % health in the original.

"Hey, now that sounds cool - the AI putting up a fight!"

Me: In space,they sure are. Soon after,the Red colored house did almost the same thing.They control 5 planets, but I only saw 3 fleets, still If they had better organized thier fleets , i would have lost big time.But they sent alot of transports in thier fleets which allowed me to beat them.**I know they have alot more (possible another full 20) war space ships .My total fleet size is now roughly 1/3 out its high.

"I'm not sure what to do here, it seems the AI lacks focus to follow through with a specific plan, just haphazardly attacking."

Me: Its a real shame too.I unlike some people I know, actaully like it when a game kicks my butt.


"Wow! I think you have the record for longest played EFS single-player game!"

Me: Still going. 5520 now, and the game is running like a champ.

"I believe these numbers are for the entire galaxy, right? This information will prove very helpful as I tweak harvesting and resource collection.

Also, what Tax rate is this at? If you are collecting this much at a Tax rate of 50% then I have something seriously broken."

Me: I control about 3/4s id say.Yellow has 2,blue has 2,green has 1,red has 5,league 1,church 1-***but not for long :)
I keep my happieness for buildings between 70 and 90.At 90 and above i can get my trace to 20k pro,but it still doesnt stock up, so no point in it.

"By the way, is Universal Wherehouse ON or OFF in your game?"

Me: universal warhouse is ON.


* \
** > explantion follows for these three below.
*** /

I started to launch suicide recon forays onto every planet, to see exactly how the others where doing on resources.
I discovered that every faction EXCEPT church was out of trace and running in the negatives on production.
The church who I had planned to let survive, is now in the stages of losing terra(to me :) ).From what I can see, the church had roughly 15- 20k in trace warehoused.I intend to take over a large portion of terra, and then stage hit and run riads on thier mines,stealing thier trace stores and retreating.Leaving them able to retake the mines and start to rebuild their trace reserves.Which i will of course raid again in the future as need demands.

The League has next to nothing warehoused.They do however have an immense amount of food warehoused.

Niether the league or the church has a fleet left.The church is reduced to a single Vlad cruiser sitting in hawkwoods home planet orbit.
The league has nothing except space fighters.

The houses are managing to turn out some killer space craft. I have seen a few doomstars and alot of the chronos, brontes and Tethys.
Fortunately for me, they have been keeping them spread out.Id be in serious trouble if they grouped 20 of these together and hit one of my borders :eek: .

tkobo
Fighter pilot
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:01 am

Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby tkobo » Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:03 pm

TRACE production has been fixed !!!
circa 5540

I cant say for sure why it is,but it is now starting to accumulate again.

The raids and take over of Terra from the church allowed me some working trace to construct a wave of engineers on Critter,which was the one heavy built up planet i made the mistake of taking with its buildings 90%+ intact.

I started a wave of slash and burn on Cerm Steel and chemical plants on this plant,concentrating heavily on Cerm steel plants.
After removing somewhere in the vicinity of 30 buildings, most of which where cerm steel,the trace usage number jumped almost 4000 pts downwards.
At most I lowered this number by 1500 with the elimination of the buildings.
Where the extra 2500 usage was regained i have NO idea.
But i am now again not only showing positive trace production(even though the numbers ARE STILL wrong),but now i am actaully seeing it also as the trace is starting to accumulate.Abit very slowly.

This tells me that the trace production for the universe is actaully good, and needs no change.
I suspect a bugged building or as you mentioned ,some wierdness with the numbers over runnning.

I would also like to stress again, the game is running like a champ.No major slowdowns or crashes.

And red is getting downright scary ,as its space fleet now both outnumbers mine and is of damn near eqaul qaulity.
I estimate ,based on ships in orbit and my suicide recon runs on thier planets that they have well over 180 space ships,roughly half of them are decent qaulity( advanced cruisers) and up.They seem to favor the Juggernauts,which i discovered they had at least 6 atlas jugs on just one planet ,just sitting there waiting. :eek:

Matt Caspermeyer
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Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:54 am

Me:I currently have over 40 sceptors,including a few of the (about 10) of the upgraded sceptors.
Is it the time delay as to why all your Sceptors are not the most advanced or is it due to resources?

Me:That wont work, as every house seems to be running in negative resources.
*Except for the church.I will explain at the bottom.
Okay, and since you have Universal Wherehouse ON, then capturing these cities immediately detracts from your galaxywide collection.

Me: That was my first thought, but i dont think its the problem as trace was on the edge the whole game for me.I dont beleive I ever had a trace reserve of over 50K.Where if you look at the massive resourves Ive been able to save up in othern the resources,suggests theres something else causing it.And agian, im not really sure, but i believe at this point had the numbers been right, i would have built less farms and wells and might actaully have been able to maintian a small trace reserve.
Okay, then it must be another resource overflowing and maybe affecting the Trace accumulation array. I think I have some ideas here to try...

Me: ive seen alot of shock legions in thier ground forces.BUT they seem to rely far heavier on the differnet types of fortifications .They panet fell by the way.As did 2 more after it.
Im now going after Terra.
Yes, the AI seems to like to build Fortifications and PTS Fortifications. Maybe I should not allow these to be built in every city and then they may build more offensive units instead of defensive. Hmmm...

Me : yup, the planets I dont expect enemy fleets to reach have 10 or less ground forces on them.Not counting nobles and sceptors.
Gotcha.

Me: I didnt know that .Is that new? i could have sworn famine could reduce a unit to 25 % health in the original.
It does for human players, but I don't think the game lets AI players have famine.

Me: In space,they sure are. Soon after,the Red colored house did almost the same thing.They control 5 planets, but I only saw 3 fleets, still If they had better organized thier fleets , i would have lost big time.But they sent alot of transports in thier fleets which allowed me to beat them.**I know they have alot more (possible another full 20) war space ships .My total fleet size is now roughly 1/3 out its high.
Is Hazat doing so well because you didn't fight them early or have they been doing better than the other players for a long time? This is the HOriginal galaxy, so they are adjacent to Li Halan (well sort of) on the map. It is interesting that the AI seems to have (although it has taken a long time) managed to do okay with them, but maybe it is because you didn't fight them early?

Me: Its a real shame too.I unlike some people I know, actaully like it when a game kicks my butt.
Yes, well it at least looks like I've done some good with the changes in Hyperion to help the AI out.

Me: Still going. 5520 now, and the game is running like a champ.
Awesome!

Me: I control about 3/4s id say.Yellow has 2,blue has 2,green has 1,red has 5,league 1,church 1-***but not for long
Why are Decados, al-Malik, and Hawkwood having so much trouble - have you been fighting them or have they run into different problems?

I keep my happieness for buildings between 70 and 90.At 90 and above i can get my trace to 20k pro,but it still doesnt stock up, so no point in it.
Okay, between 70 and 90% - that sounds reasonable.

Me: universal warhouse is ON.
This makes the galaxy accumulation a lot more because you effectively utilize all excess resources on your planets.

I have an idea here that could help use up much more food while not affecting anything but the number of cities you have to build. I hadn't realized, but since you are capturing planets with probably dozens of cities that is why you have to raze so many is because the AI has built so many.

I can normalize city production without affecting resource cost. For example, a Chemicals Plant consumes 100 Energy, 25 Trace and produces 100 Chemicals. Dividing all these by 5 I can have a Chemicals Plant consume 20 Energy, 5 Trace and produce 20 Chemicals. Now you need 5 times the number of Chemicals Plants to produce the same amount of Chemicals and so you'll be using 5 times more Food than you were before for the same amount of resource production.

This also seems to work well for the computer players since I bet they are building a lot more production facitlities than are needed. I'm not sure what is going on here, but the AI probably has no idea which resources it really needs.

* \
** > explantion follows for these three below.
*** /

I started to launch suicide recon forays onto every planet, to see exactly how the others where doing on resources.
I discovered that every faction EXCEPT church was out of trace and running in the negatives on production.
The church who I had planned to let survive, is now in the stages of losing terra(to me ).From what I can see, the church had roughly 15- 20k in trace warehoused.I intend to take over a large portion of terra, and then stage hit and run riads on thier mines,stealing thier trace stores and retreating.Leaving them able to retake the mines and start to rebuild their trace reserves.Which i will of course raid again in the future as need demands.
I think the Church has insufficient other buildings to eat up the Trace and that is why they have such a surplus. On Leagueheim, the League has lots of production facilities, whereas Holy Terra is pretty barren.

The League has next to nothing warehoused.They do however have an immense amount of food warehoused.
Right - they probably don't eat Food and I think they have several Arboriums on the planet.

Niether the league or the church has a fleet left.The church is reduced to a single Vlad cruiser sitting in hawkwoods home planet orbit.
The league has nothing except space fighters.
Yes, I wish I could easily get the Church and League to build units, but it is tough since they can't research technology. If I could only get them to research technology then they would be just like another player.

The houses are managing to turn out some killer space craft. I have seen a few doomstars and alot of the chronos, brontes and Tethys.
Fortunately for me, they have been keeping them spread out.Id be in serious trouble if they grouped 20 of these together and hit one of my borders.
I think they like building the big ships.

TRACE production has been fixed !!!
circa 5540

I cant say for sure why it is,but it is now starting to accumulate again.

The raids and take over of Terra from the church allowed me some working trace to construct a wave of engineers on Critter,which was the one heavy built up planet i made the mistake of taking with its buildings 90%+ intact.
Maybe since you removed a bunch of buildings you've now solved the overflow problem. Hmmm... I wonder if it was building related as opposed to resource collection related?

I started a wave of slash and burn on Cerm Steel and chemical plants on this plant,concentrating heavily on Cerm steel plants.
After removing somewhere in the vicinity of 30 buildings, most of which where cerm steel,the trace usage number jumped almost 4000 pts downwards.
At most I lowered this number by 1500 with the elimination of the buildings.
Where the extra 2500 usage was regained i have NO idea.
But i am now again not only showing positive trace production(even though the numbers ARE STILL wrong),but now i am actaully seeing it also as the trace is starting to accumulate.Abit very slowly.
Hmmm... this is very strange but I guess since it is fixed for now you can at least build some Engineers.

This tells me that the trace production for the universe is actaully good, and needs no change.
I tend to agree here, when I doubled the Trace production on most planets it seemed like it really needed it and since you've been struggling with Trace throughout the entire game I think you are right.

I think I need to tweak the other production facilities by the scaling method I mentioned and that should also dramatically reduce your Food stores. As far as Metal, I bumped up Metal usage in an unreleased Gamma for Engineers, Nobles, and Sceptors, but maybe I need to address the problem more at the overall unit construction level, although that is not an easy fix.

I may go back to Engineers costing 500 Metal like in the old Hyperion days since now it seems like players can afford it. We'll see, but I'll definitely try out some various ideas here.

I suspect a bugged building or as you mentioned ,some wierdness with the numbers over runnning.
Right, your guess is as good as mine.

I would also like to stress again, the game is running like a champ.No major slowdowns or crashes.
This is simply amazing! By the way, you haven't mentioned anything about Symbiots - what is up with them and also what happened to the Vau?

And red is getting downright scary ,as its space fleet now both outnumbers mine and is of damn near eqaul qaulity.
I estimate ,based on ships in orbit and my suicide recon runs on thier planets that they have well over 180 space ships,roughly half of them are decent qaulity( advanced cruisers) and up.They seem to favor the Juggernauts,which i discovered they had at least 6 atlas jugs on just one planet ,just sitting there waiting.
Wow! 180 space ships?! How many do you have? One thing is that the AI gets to cheat on upgrades and they can build them directly without the upgrade unit. Nothing I can do about that - that is how the game works.

Have you built any Doomstars yourself, and advanced Jump Hover units?

What are your favorite units to build (I assume you finished the tech tree a while back). Have you been using a lot of Mechs for planetary assaults after removing spacefleets, or what is your favorite mode of attacking with all the "toys" available?

These are enjoyable reports to read - keep playing, I'll get back to work on some of these ideas to see if it helps tone things down a bit on the production side and the resource utilization.

Matt
Matt

mud3
Infantery
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:01 am
Location: somewhere in nebraska

Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby mud3 » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:18 pm

you guys have no idea what a lot and how much is. you'll find out in the 57th or 56th century. To be honest I'm not sure, I'm using the old hyperpatch from a long time ago. I haven't played that save in a long time, I played off and on for almost 4 years.
Take over all the planets but two or three.
let the enemy take over a planet every now and then. It's still fun. Just don't build an overwelling numbers of anything and you'll have no problem with money nor supply.

lordmoore
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2000 1:01 am
Location: USA

Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby lordmoore » Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:03 am

I thought the computer players where unaffected by famine and the plague? ....can't remember where I got that notion...but I do remember testing it out by setting off several plauge bombs then coming back every once in a while to see that the units showed that they where infected...but none of them including the cities ever showed any damage.
Enemies strengthen you.
Allies weaken.
I tell you this in the hope that it will help you understand why I act as I do in full knowledge that great forces accumulate in my Empire but with one wish--the wish to destroy me.

tkobo
Fighter pilot
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:01 am

Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby tkobo » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:31 am

"Is it the time delay as to why all your Sceptors are not the most advanced or is it due to resources?"

Me: resources for sure.The trace thing messed me up for a long while.Also,it part my pwn fault as i didnt really work that hard to make all the sceptors as high as i could have.


"Is Hazat doing so well because you didn't fight them early or have they been doing better than the other players for a long time?"

Me: I'd quess Its becuase I havent really engaged them full out,til now.
For the most part they have expanded in the half of the galaxy that i didnt.Becuase of this,i only fought them when they crossed into my area.

"Why are Decados, al-Malik, and Hawkwood having so much trouble - have you been fighting them or have they run into different problems?"

Me: Yes, ive been fighting them from the beginning.Ive keyed on one at a time when possible.Hawkwood was also fairly strong like red,til i went after them.
Also yellow and green had a hard time with the syms in the beginning.

"By the way, you haven't mentioned anything about Symbiots - what is up with them and also what happened to the Vau?"

Me: Symbiots are fully contained on nowhere.I have the choke point almost fully manned with like 16 ships.They try to get out once in a while, but i crush them at the choke point.
Ive left the Vau alone,and probably will all game.
They have given me no reason to go after them.And as im roleplaying alittle as i play,i view them as a quiet nieghbor.

"Wow! 180 space ships?! How many do you have? "

Me: Man were my recon units wrong in thier report.Since I took terra,it left Artemis isolated from the other red planets.So I picked it as the starting move against red ,who's turn has come to be keyed on by me.
I am roughly 11 turns into the fight for artemis.
So far over 220 ships have come up off of artemis to try and take out my fleet.
I comitted 20 Doomstars directly to its orbit and had another 15 that i use too reinforce them sitting in terras orbit.

Now that 220 ships (all destroyed) does NOT count the ships ive destroyed on the planets surface with bombardment.At least another 33 so far have been destroyed on the ground.And ive barely touched the planet yet.I intend to keep a fairly accurate count of reds ships losses.When this battle for artemis is over,if ive won of course,i will post the total ship lost count for red from that planet.

So my estimate was WAY OFF.
I dont understand how they can afford such a massive fleet,but they apparently can.
If the other planets are similarily stocked,it suggests that RED has over 1300 ships.

Roughly 1/2 of these are combat ships.Mostly juggernauts.The other half is transports.
In a given set of twenty sent up into orbit ,on average ,about 8 are jugs so far.

I have alot of doomstars,more than half my fleet is doomstars.
I have about 160 ships atm.But inorder to maintaiun this fleet i have taxed myself right out of the 3rd epoch.Im somewhere down to like 53% on building loyalty and I am still like 30k a turn in the hole.
Selling to the League has kept me above water so far,but im running out of things to sell.

Current game turn is now circa 5570

tkobo
Fighter pilot
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:01 am

Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby tkobo » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:38 pm

Okay,the game has locked up.Year 5580.I believe the lockup was caused by the massive forces that RED brought into action.The lockup was during thier turn.

On ships,its unbelievable how many ships RED has/had on Artemis alone.
A total of over 380 ships were launched into space against my fleet.
A total of over 42 more were destroyed on the ground by my fleets bombardment of artemis.
A total of 61 ships were captured by my ground forces on artemis and thrown into battle against reds space fleets.
There are also over 39 more space ships in sight of my ground forces that i had not been able to reach yet.

SOOOO, with the battle for the planet barely begun,RED had shown itself to have over 520 ships on artemis alone.

Even worse,the last few groups of 20 launched by red were totally war ships.NOT a single transport in them.
Atlas Jugs and Doomstars among them.

My fleet of roughy; 35 doomstars had to be reinforced by my border fleets.
In total, i thru roughly 60 doomstars at Artemis.I have roughly 28 left of that force and I am maintining an offense in space against RED only by capturing thier ships on the ground and using them against them.

Terra is under bombardment by RED's fleet which came out after me.I am unable to defeat this fleet at the moment and am trading ships with it each turn.

Without the captured ships from artemis,i would have had my fleets in artemis and terra wiped off
the map.If the game had NOT locked up, i probably would have lost on artemis and been forced off terra as well.

I really cant understand how RED can afford that many ships.I am in awe of just how many ships they must have in total,all planets included.

The only way I can see at the moment to win against such a planet,would be to extablish peace with them,move massive amounts of troops(ones that cant be bombarded) onto thier planet during the peace,than declare war on them.

To me this would be an extreme exploit,so i wont do it.Personally I think anytime a faction lands troops on another factions planet it should be an automatic declaration of war,unless they are allies.

Matt Caspermeyer
Noble
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2000 2:01 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Contact:

Re: Game in year 5353 now

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:01 am

Me: resources for sure.The trace thing messed me up for a long while.Also,it part my pwn fault as i didnt really work that hard to make all the sceptors as high as i could have.
Gotcha - I can see the Trace problem making a huge difference

Me: I'd quess Its becuase I havent really engaged them full out,til now.
For the most part they have expanded in the half of the galaxy that i didnt.Becuase of this,i only fought them when they crossed into my area.
Okay, that makes sense, it seems like the AI (albeit slowly) will still be able to expand and build as long as they are not battling a human opponent.

Me: Yes, ive been fighting them from the beginning.Ive keyed on one at a time when possible.Hawkwood was also fairly strong like red,til i went after them.
Also yellow and green had a hard time with the syms in the beginning.
This makes sense, in the HOriginal Galaxy, al-Malik and Decados are in the line of Symbiot fire and so I can see them having a hard time after the Symbiots blow past Stigmata.

Me: Symbiots are fully contained on nowhere.I have the choke point almost fully manned with like 16 ships.They try to get out once in a while, but i crush them at the choke point.
How quickly did you gain access to this choke point and did you have to clean off any Symbiots that were hanging around the al-Malik and Decados homeworlds?

Ive left the Vau alone,and probably will all game.
They have given me no reason to go after them.And as im roleplaying alittle as i play,i view them as a quiet nieghbor.
Right, I see your point.

Me: Man were my recon units wrong in thier report.Since I took terra,it left Artemis isolated from the other red planets.So I picked it as the starting move against red ,who's turn has come to be keyed on by me.
I am roughly 11 turns into the fight for artemis.
So far over 220 ships have come up off of artemis to try and take out my fleet.
I comitted 20 Doomstars directly to its orbit and had another 15 that i use too reinforce them sitting in terras orbit.

Now that 220 ships (all destroyed) does NOT count the ships ive destroyed on the planets surface with bombardment.At least another 33 so far have been destroyed on the ground.And ive barely touched the planet yet.I intend to keep a fairly accurate count of reds ships losses.When this battle for artemis is over,if ive won of course,i will post the total ship lost count for red from that planet.

So my estimate was WAY OFF.
I dont understand how they can afford such a massive fleet,but they apparently can.
If the other planets are similarily stocked,it suggests that RED has over 1300 ships.

Roughly 1/2 of these are combat ships.Mostly juggernauts.The other half is transports.
In a given set of twenty sent up into orbit ,on average ,about 8 are jugs so far.

I have alot of doomstars,more than half my fleet is doomstars.
I have about 160 ships atm.But inorder to maintaiun this fleet i have taxed myself right out of the 3rd epoch.Im somewhere down to like 53% on building loyalty and I am still like 30k a turn in the hole.
Selling to the League has kept me above water so far,but im running out of things to sell.

Current game turn is now circa 5570
Cool - this is really informative, I'd comment, but I'll include your updated post and comment on that.

Okay,the game has locked up.Year 5580.I believe the lockup was caused by the massive forces that RED brought into action.The lockup was during thier turn.
Hmmm... this is too bad, you may want to try the 0 movement trick and see if it gets you past this logjam.

On ships,its unbelievable how many ships RED has/had on Artemis alone.
A total of over 380 ships were launched into space against my fleet.
A total of over 42 more were destroyed on the ground by my fleets bombardment of artemis.
A total of 61 ships were captured by my ground forces on artemis and thrown into battle against reds space fleets.
There are also over 39 more space ships in sight of my ground forces that i had not been able to reach yet.

SOOOO, with the battle for the planet barely begun,RED had shown itself to have over 520 ships on artemis alone.
Wow! That is some fleet!

Even worse,the last few groups of 20 launched by red were totally war ships.NOT a single transport in them.
Atlas Jugs and Doomstars among them.

My fleet of roughy; 35 doomstars had to be reinforced by my border fleets.
In total, i thru roughly 60 doomstars at Artemis.I have roughly 28 left of that force and I am maintining an offense in space against RED only by capturing thier ships on the ground and using them against them.
This is quite some battle! By the way, I've noticed that you seem to be sticking with big ships that are very time-consuming and expensive to build. Have you tried other fleet combinations (i.e. traditional carrier + fighters / torpedo bombers / space marines + capital ships + doomstars) and found that they have been unsuccessful or are you mainly thinking bigger is better?

Terra is under bombardment by RED's fleet which came out after me.I am unable to defeat this fleet at the moment and am trading ships with it each turn.
Wow! More epic battles! Sounds like you're having lots of fun!

Without the captured ships from artemis,i would have had my fleets in artemis and terra wiped off
the map.If the game had NOT locked up, i probably would have lost on artemis and been forced off terra as well.
I hope you can figure out a way to continue - do you have a save game that is maybe 5 years old to go back to? If not, you should try the 0 movement trick I mentioned to see if that works. If you can't figure it out, you can email me the savegame and I'll see if I can get you through it.

I really cant understand how RED can afford that many ships.I am in awe of just how many ships they must have in total,all planets included.
Well, they have to be cheating. My guess is that the AI doesn't have to pay for its units or that they don't need to pay their bills at the end of a turn. As far as resources, I'm not sure where it could even harvest / produce that many resources so they might be cheating here as well.

In a way, though, even if they are cheating at least it has been very challenging for you these past few decades!

The only way I can see at the moment to win against such a planet,would be to extablish peace with them,move massive amounts of troops(ones that cant be bombarded) onto thier planet during the peace,than declare war on them.

To me this would be an extreme exploit,so i wont do it.Personally I think anytime a faction lands troops on another factions planet it should be an automatic declaration of war,unless they are allies.
Yes, that would be very sneaky, but it is a good idea not to do it. Well, I sure hope you can figure out how to get it through the crash. You can also try 3 movement instead of 0 movement for all space ships - that might help you get through it.

Thanks for the updates, it sounds like you're having a lot of fun!

:D

Matt
Matt


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