AI locks up.

A very good patch

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UnFleshedOne
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AI locks up.

Postby UnFleshedOne » Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:03 am

I'm around 50th turn in the game and house Al'Malik locks during its turn, my CPU going 100% and that's it until I kill the prosess.
Is there any way to transfer control from AI-run house to me? To see if I can go past this turn. I'd really like to save this save :) .
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby Grimly » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:51 am

Nope.

There are several known bugs that could cause a crash. All you can do is go back to the last save and run it again; set the game to autisave 2x a turn and you will have more flexibility in the future.

Funny about the 100% CPU use though. Never heard of that in connection with EFS.
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby cy387_lk » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:56 am

As soon as I know there is no way to take control over Ai-controlled house. I've already heard once about the problem of yours. Sometimes this happenes when spaceships movement points were set wrong. Anyway it's difficult to say what could cause a loop. Try to make a search on this forum on "Fixing it ourself" and here on "Hyperion".

Which version are you running?

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Re: AI locks up.

Postby UnFleshedOne » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:36 am

I'm running Hyperion, last one (downloaded it only recently).

Anyway, I fixed it :) . Using Soft Ice and good measure of SWAG I broke out of infinite loop. Nothing crushed, not even once, that's what I call a robust code :) . I don't know what couldn't AI decide that time, but couple turns later this house declared war on me :) .
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby UnFleshedOne » Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:42 am

Well, it didn't last long. Now I have exception breakpoint reached or something 0x80000003 at point 0x7c901230. Rebels now. :(
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cy387_lk
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby cy387_lk » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:32 pm

Hmm, it looks like some units stats problems. The last version of Hyperion is relatively new, and carries lots of changes in that area and some AI improvements. And I know very few people who played it by 100%. So there may be a bunch of still uncovered errors. I'd recommend to look into these errors you have and report them to Matt. That's the fastest way to repair them.
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby Grimly » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:56 am

That error is something i've never seen.

I'll have to look into the soft ice/SWAG thing . . .

Don't worry, cy, I'm not going anywhere until I fix fading Suns, or someone else fixes it! ;)
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UnFleshedOne
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby UnFleshedOne » Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:19 am

Just to be clear, SWAG is "Scientific Wild Ass Guess". :)
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby cy387_lk » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:33 pm

"fix" - hehe, I like sound of that.

... Me too, I'll try to fully play it and make some tests.
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby lordmoore » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:57 am

Me three ;)

Hope to get a new machine soon. When that happens i can play EFS.
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby Grimly » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:06 am

Poor lordmoore! Hope you'll be running XP.

Unfleshed dude, do you know how to read breakpoints etc? That is, what do those numbers you give mean to someone trying to either fix or work around---at any rate, to identify---that particular problem?

---How do you get the game back and running after using SoftIce? I won't pay for it, but I have downloaded Olly (google ollydbg) and have it set as a just-in-time debugger. Don't know for sure, but i assume that means that when a game freezes Olly will catch it and tell me something.

---Are you familiar with REC Studio 2.00, the Reverse Engineering Compiler, i.e., decompiler? It was just released August 1. Go to backerstreet.com. I have it running and it's a very cool tool, but

(a) in XP, it freezes when I open EFS! probably a matter of limited backwards compatibility---see b.

(b) it runs ok in Win98 but shows no procedures, which seem to be the heart of the exe file. So as far as AI coding, build tables, and so forth, I can't see source code. I've learned more from the hex editor AXE.

(c) an older version, REC, runs in Win98 as well, but I can't figure it out.

I have a snip of UnitBuildTable code Matt gave me, but I am suspecting (gasp!) that it is incomplete. As I have noted elsewhere, it seems that changing the unitspot table can change what units the AI builds, and that is not part of the scheme outlined in that snippet. :(

Anyway, this is getting offtopic, but UnFleshed, I hope you see this. If anyone finds anything out about these tools or the source code, please post it under Fixing It Ourselves. You know _I_ will!
Grimly

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Re: AI locks up.

Postby UnFleshedOne » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:15 am

Unfleshed dude, do you know how to read breakpoints etc? That is, what do those numbers you give mean to someone trying to either fix or work around---at any rate, to identify---that particular problem?
Well, it does identify problem most of the time (different problems most of the time produce different errors), especially if it was already spotted and fixed or undestood. And it can say much more to developer :) .

---How do you get the game back and running after using SoftIce?
The good thing about Soft Ice is that you don't have to run program you are debugging "under" it (like you have to "attach" most of debuggers to the process). And it runs in RING 0 (if I am not mistaken), which means that you can debug a debugger with SI :) .

Anyway, with SI I fixed that other error, when AI couldn't decide something and apparently got itself into infinite loop. I just went to SI (Ctrl-D) and because EFS took all CPU time, naturally I found myself in that loop. Then I just traced for a while, defined borders of the loop and screwed around with some conditional jumps. (just changed appropriate flag in flag register) After each changed jump I let it loose to see, if the loop have been broken. After several such attempts the game just continued to next house. I don't know if it was sheer luck, that I didn't crush the game (I could have easily bypassed some null value check for example), or that piece of code was written using "defensive" style of programming, or there was nothing critical, just some case of Buridan's ass :) . Anyway, I played it some dozens of turns after, got that breakpoint thing with rebels, bypassed it by rolling back for couple of turns (no small deal, mind you!), and then I played it some 80-100 turns more.

Hope it is clear, if not (I'm no writer :) ) say so and I'll try to explain better.

I won't pay for it, but I have downloaded Olly (google ollydbg) and have it set as a just-in-time debugger. Don't know for sure, but i assume that means that when a game freezes Olly will catch it and tell me something.
I can send you SI for "trial and evaluation" :) purposes if you need it. Or you can download it from eDonkey or torrent. To run it under XP you need version 2.6. It comes with DriverStudio 2.6 (under 40Mb) I've never seen it alone.

JIT will mostly catch unhandled exceptions (there really should not be any in finished programs, but...). Probably you should be able to set it to catch all exceptions...

---Are you familiar with REC Studio 2.00, the Reverse Engineering Compiler, i.e., decompiler? It was just released August 1. Go to backerstreet.com.
No, thanks for the link. :)

Problems with decompillers is that you almost never can build it back :) . But for understanding the code it can be very helpful, yes.
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UnFleshedOne
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby UnFleshedOne » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:56 am

BTW, REC rus under XP if you set compatibility to Win98 :) . But yes, it does nothing :(
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby Grimly » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:28 pm

Thanks! No, your explanation would be perfectly clear to a programmer---of course I understood almost nothing, because I don't know how to use a debugger (I don't know the difference between an address and an offset!), but I am trying to learn.

Olly just caught an error at 0000003C after a game ended; I clicked OK and EFS got stuck. That's not even a game mechanics issue---I think it just doesn't like the screen saver. Olly was unable to get me past the exception.

Will try a few things . . . I know there ARE procedures in the file (of course there have to be) because Olly counts some 1400.

<small>[ 05.08.2005, 15:01: Message edited by: Grimly Fiendish ]</small>
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Re: AI locks up.

Postby Grimly » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:43 pm

I'm finding RECS does NOT run any better in 98 mode in XP. That is, it still freezes when I open EFS.exe. :(

Don't know if by "does nothing" you mean you had a freeze too. I find it works fine on EFS.exe in W98, it just can't find procedures. Which is to say it does nothing really useful.

:( :( :(
Grimly


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