Sceptres

A very good patch

Moderator: Matt Caspermeyer

Deathifier
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Re: Sceptres

Postby Deathifier » Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:31 pm

Don't forget about the non-disbandable unit disbanding trick
Yeah it's still lurking about :)
I consider it an exploit though, and would prefer not to use it if some other method is available.

If you go ahead with the packing idea I'd like to see them packable in the singleton cities (shield, church, palace, etc) and in factories or one of the other construction buildings (so you can build the building underneath the sceptor where needed).

By making Nobles buildable, you can now risk your Nobles for such glorious causes!
Yes, making them buildable was an excellent idea, though the battlemaster armour bonus is insane since the armour values were dropped :)

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Matt Caspermeyer
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Re: Sceptres

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:41 pm

Yeah it's still lurking about
I consider it an exploit though, and would prefer not to use it if some other method is available.
Well, since you can do it, I've used it as a feature - that's why there are Noble upgrades, Nobles can be upgraded to Sceptors, and why there are Sceptor upgrades. So it is really a feature, and that's how I've decided to use it in Hyperion.

If you go ahead with the packing idea I'd like to see them packable in the singleton cities (shield, church, palace, etc) and in factories or one of the other construction buildings (so you can build the building underneath the sceptor where needed).
It will probably be hard to do in more than just a few cities, since you have a choice between one city or all of them. You need to add another unit for each different city you want to add, and so I'm not even sure where they'll fit right now, but for each city I make them buildable in, I'd have to add a duplicate of them somewhere that is buildable in a different city. So... I'll have to think about that!

Yes, making them buildable was an excellent idea, though the battlemaster armour bonus is insane since the armour values were dropped
Right, Battlemaster turns ordinary units into godly units (well sort of), but don't forget that the Noble stack is still vulnerable to Psy attacks and that only a few of your stacks will have this ability. I could simply rescale the armor values, but since Battlemaster adds +20, you'd have to think of a good value to multiply all the attack strengths and armor values by. But then they'd be easily over 1000 and then hard to read. So I kind of like having the super Battlemaster Trait because it really encourages people to use their Nobles, up until the point where they attack a Cyber Mage stack and get wiped out!

Aside from that, though, it is pretty awesome (and why in PBEM's it is +10 in the Hyperion Trait Selection System).

:)

Matt
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Re: Sceptres

Postby Mind Elemental » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:05 am

Yeah it's still lurking about
I consider it an exploit though, and would prefer not to use it if some other method is available.
I personally see no problem in using the non-disbandable disbanding feature, so long as the other human players don't mind! :) (The AI doesn't count -- anyone remember EFS 1.0, where they attacked you on ByzSec with their whole stack that happened to include a spy?)

Anyone think it would be cool for there to be a house rule stating that upon capturing the Palace on a planet, you have to pack all sceptres on that world and move them to the Palace? That idea occurred to me after looking at Isenias and Earth...

Right, Battlemaster turns ordinary units into godly units (well sort of), but don't forget that the Noble stack is still vulnerable to Psy attacks and that only a few of your stacks will have this ability. I could simply rescale the armor values, but since Battlemaster adds +20, you'd have to think of a good value to multiply all the attack strengths and armor values by. But then they'd be easily over 1000 and then hard to read. So I kind of like having the super Battlemaster Trait because it really encourages people to use their Nobles, up until the point where they attack a Cyber Mage stack and get wiped out!

Aside from that, though, it is pretty awesome (and why in PBEM's it is +10 in the Hyperion Trait Selection System).
Battlemaster is incredibly powerful, yeah, but you can't get overconfident -- it doesn't help much against the PTS Fort on Earth, or against the likes of Strategic Bombers!

Besides, it was pretty useless before the armour was rescaled... :D

Matt Caspermeyer
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Re: Sceptres

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:23 am

Anyone think it would be cool for there to be a house rule stating that upon capturing the Palace on a planet, you have to pack all sceptres on that world and move them to the Palace? That idea occurred to me after looking at Isenias and Earth...
I don't think this rule is necessary - especially since if Sceptres aren't in Palaces at the beginning of the game, people with find where they are anyway and it is probably okay for them to be in these cities to represent a special situation that the galaxy designer deems is appropriate for a Sceptre to be located there.

Battlemaster is incredibly powerful, yeah, but you can't get overconfident -- it doesn't help much against the PTS Fort on Earth, or against the likes of Strategic Bombers!

Besides, it was pretty useless before the armour was rescaled...
Right, now the Trait is very viable, and since Nobles are buildable, people are encouraged to employ their Nobles in battle and have them lead bands of cool troops like we read in the Fading Suns books.

Blademasters are almost as good as Rebel Partisans and Psy-masters are pretty awesome! The highest Noble, the Noblesse Elitesse, really kicks some major butt and having bands of Nobles leading your best troops really makes the game much more fun and exciting!

As far as making an upgrade for packing up Sceptres, I think I need a little more convincing before I allow that. I'm of the opinion that if you want to move them, disband them back to Nobles. This loses a vote, but I think that having them located in Palaces is a great way to control where the Sceptors are in the game as well as underline the importance of controlling your Palace as well as the significance that it is both the Palace and the Sceptre that allow the vote. Having a Sceptre hidden away in some dark place where it has no impact should not confer a vote unless it happens to be located there by the galaxy designer as they see fit for their galaxy design.

Matt
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Re: Sceptres

Postby Mind Elemental » Fri Sep 26, 2003 9:22 am

Right, now the Trait is very viable, and since Nobles are buildable, people are encouraged to employ their Nobles in battle and have them lead bands of cool troops like we read in the Fading Suns books.

Blademasters are almost as good as Rebel Partisans and Psy-masters are pretty awesome! The highest Noble, the Noblesse Elitesse, really kicks some major butt and having bands of Nobles leading your best troops really makes the game much more fun and exciting!

As far as making an upgrade for packing up Sceptres, I think I need a little more convincing before I allow that. I'm of the opinion that if you want to move them, disband them back to Nobles. This loses a vote, but I think that having them located in Palaces is a great way to control where the Sceptors are in the game as well as underline the importance of controlling your Palace as well as the significance that it is both the Palace and the Sceptre that allow the vote. Having a Sceptre hidden away in some dark place where it has no impact should not confer a vote unless it happens to be located there by the galaxy designer as they see fit for their galaxy design.
Agreed to both points.
1) I love being able to actually use my Nobles in a scrap, and to have them give huge Battlemaster bonuses as an incentive!
2) I also think that the Palace, and the capital complex that people always build around it, should be more important than it is... so I like having the sceptres concentrated there. :)

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Postby Wraith » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:43 am

sorry to drudge up this old topic but I'd love the challenge to secarch and secure enemy septres >.>


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