Sceptres

A very good patch

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Mind Elemental
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Re: Sceptres

Postby Mind Elemental » Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:43 am

*nodnods* Gotcha! :D Perhaps a mix of sceptres on Nova Terra, as it looks like a place that would be Public Enemy Number One to the denizens of the Corinthian Galaxy?

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:40 pm

You can say that - you sure don't want to go there early in the game. :)

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Mind Elemental » Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:34 pm

You betcha! Fortunately, the spacefleet there doesn't seem to have moved to, oh, Isenias. Can we say 'ouch'?

Out of curiosity, why are so many of the garrison units on Nova Terra sentried? Is it because there are already enough mobile rebels to make mincemeat of most invasion forces?

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:07 am

Actually, I don't like them being sentried and have been trying to unsentry them - I've unsentried quite a few stacks on Nova Terra. When you come across a sentried Rebel stack, let me know and I'll unsentry them.

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Mind Elemental » Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:17 am

*nods* Will do. Is there any particular reason why Nova Terra doesn't have a (rebel-controlled) Palace?

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:50 am

No - I've been concentrating on so many other things I just never thought to put one in - I probably should, though, I'll add that to my Univerities change I need to do.

I'll also look at some of the other Rebel planets and see if they warrant these types of changes.

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Mind Elemental » Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:08 am

Okay! :D Does the Imperial Eye not have a palace on Minerva for that reason, or because announcing to all and sundry that "this planet is where all the spies are based" defeats the whole point of having a secret base?

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:56 am

Right - the same reason as Nova Terra, Kent made it so that they weren't in charge of it and I never thought about changing it.

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Deathifier » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:31 am

Do you think that you could make a duplicate base sceptre unit that's mobile?
Reason being is I'd like to be able to relocate starting sceptors in the current galaxies to more secure locations.
Also I'm going to start work on a galaxy at some point in the future where the players assets might want to up and leave their starting locations due to some really nasty army heading straight for them :)

The mobile ones would not be buildable of course, just there in the first slot (bumps the existing set down a slot). Also perhaps another name for the base buildable sceptres would be fitting, something to represent growth of [diplomatic] power?

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Mind Elemental » Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:27 am

I really like that idea!

As for a name... hmm...

"Monument?" "Triumphal Arch?" "Prestige Project?" "Victory Point?" (boring, I know) "Crown Jewel?" "Palace Extension?" "Royal Palace Sceptre?"

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:16 pm

Hmmm... I'll have to think about that - don't forget that you can always disband them back to a Noble if you want to move them, but they can only be built in Palaces so their location is limited.

I think that is the price to pay for having them buildable and generate income, they are in known locations so their strategic value is greatly increased.

Perhaps what I can do is have an upgrade to the Sceptor that is moveable, but does not generate any income. Then you can move the Sceptor to a new location, and disband it back to the normal Sceptor to get the 500 Firebird / turn income bonus. You will only have this option with the Sceptor, the other upgrades must be in a Palace.

What do you think?

I'll think about this while I'm up in Toronto, in order to do this, I'll need to add another unit slot which will make this change incompatible with any save games under way.

That is okay, because what I'll do is I'll fill out all the unit slots with Reserved slots so that I can always add new units in the future by replacing a Reserved unit with a new unit and I won't have to worry about compatibility issues any more with save games since every unit slot will be "taken". This then makes it easier to add new units in the future and will guarantee compatibility with any new version of Hyperion.

I'll probably implement this when I get back.

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Deathifier » Mon Aug 25, 2003 2:37 am

The disband option would be great if it was possible, however sceptors and nobles are of the non-disbandable class so making them is a one way trip.
This would also affect upgrading them, as once the upgrade is carried out you can't revert them - and you can't setup a cyclic build path and still have sceptors buildable from nobles...

Unless of course the mobile sceptor becomes a different unit class (and thus does *not* count to voting?) which can be disbanded.
That way a player who wants to move them needs to sacrifice both their voting strength and income during transit.
Packing it up shouldn't cost anything, but should come with a few (5?) turn penalty to prevent people just upping and leaving immediately if a group are threatened.

Call it a 'packed sceptor'.
There's the option of just making it loadable (which is all I was really after) or also making it mobile like cargo pods.

The reserved unit slots sound like a great idea!

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Re: Sceptres

Postby BuckStrider » Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:29 am

I feel that sceptors should NOT be buildable....Upgraded...Yes (For cash or special abilities...As stated in the above)

However...I feel that sceptors that are UPGRADED should be "Unmoveable and Non-loadable" and only upgraded in a Palace.

There are 2 ways to win in any game

1)Killing off a houses Nobles

or.....

2)Votes to declare yourself

By NOT being able to build (Even if it takes a LONG time) a sceptor....It makes the game "Stable"

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:37 pm

The disband option would be great if it was possible, however sceptors and nobles are of the non-disbandable class so making them is a one way trip.
This would also affect upgrading them, as once the upgrade is carried out you can't revert them - and you can't setup a cyclic build path and still have sceptors buildable from nobles...
Don't forget about the non-disbandable unit disbanding trick:

You need at least 1 unit in your stack that can be disbanded. Select that unit and hit "D" for disband. Say no to the Disband Query. Then right click on the unit that you really want to disband (i.e. a Noble or a Sceptor) and then hit the ENTER key. The Disband Query will pop up, allowing you to disband the unit. Note that this does not work for Ministry units!

Unless of course the mobile sceptor becomes a different unit class (and thus does *not* count to voting?) which can be disbanded.
That way a player who wants to move them needs to sacrifice both their voting strength and income during transit.
Yes, this is how I would do it, I would make the upgrade be in a non-Sceptor slot, so that a player cannot vote with that Sceptor while it is in transit.

Packing it up shouldn't cost anything, but should come with a few (5?) turn penalty to prevent people just upping and leaving immediately if a group are threatened.
I would have it cost a small amount of resources, probably use some Metal and other resources to serve as "packing up" material. I'd probably only have this capability in a Palace, so if your Sceptor is not there, you can disband it back to a Noble and move it anyway (which perhaps is just as good as having a Sceptor upgrade to move it).

Hmmm...

Call it a 'packed sceptor'.
There's the option of just making it loadable (which is all I was really after) or also making it mobile like cargo pods.
Right, it would be just loadable, but since you can always disband a Sceptor back to a Noble, a Sceptor upgrade to move it would be to add the strategic capability to move the first Sceptor types around and then disband them back to Sceptors when you want to put them in a place other than your Palace. Sounds like an interesting idea.

The reserved unit slots sound like a great idea!
Yes, if I was thinking, I would have done this for this beta, but oh well.

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Re: Sceptres

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:44 pm

I feel that sceptors should NOT be buildable....Upgraded...Yes (For cash or special abilities...As stated in the above)
I was really resistant to the idea at first, but with high resource requirements and long build times I think it is manageable.

However...I feel that sceptors that are UPGRADED should be "Unmoveable and Non-loadable" and only upgraded in a Palace.
Yes, certainly in agreement here!

There are 2 ways to win in any game

1)Killing off a houses Nobles

or.....

2)Votes to declare yourself

By NOT being able to build (Even if it takes a LONG time) a sceptor....It makes the game "Stable"
Right, but if it takes you 30 years to get 1 Sceptor, then that is not going to be nearly as profitable as traveling the galaxy and capturing 5 in 20 years. It does add an interesting strategic element, but certainly, the fastest way to acquire Sceptors is to capture them, not build them.

As far as building Nobles, I think it is a good idea to allow their construction, because otherwise players have them sit in their Palaces or go hide somewhere, and the Fading Suns universe is all about the Nobles traveling around and doing great things.

By making Nobles buildable, you can now risk your Nobles for such glorious causes!

Matt
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