Emperor of the Fading Suns Forum

just so you know, you cant just add the ruins, i think you need to add the bonuses as well :/,

it just also stinks that you'll know where everything in the game is and we will not lol

You don't need to do anything with ruins other than place them, actually. The rebels and rewards within are semi random, picked from whatever list the ruins use. One game with a newly placed ruin might see a few garrison units and a couple starships, while the next might see a noble and power armored infantry with supporting artillery.

I'm not sure how exactly the ruins pick their contents, though.

oh okay
my bad

i've considered that with regards to resources nick. I can always nerf my side by an engineer or two, or we could agree to add NO resource markers at all!!!!!

depends what everyone else wold like? imkinda thinkin maybe no resource markers? just to make it easier on you, no need to run around adding them to every planet and trying to balance them

How would you deal with no exotica and no gem markers?

If I might make a suggestion, you could design a world however you want, send the GALAXY.GAL to everyone, and they could type in HDIVIEW at the regent screen to uncover the whole galaxy. That way they would be able to see it just as well as the creator and judge it for themselves.

that sounds like a cool idea russell.
I am not sure i am the right person to be balancing anyway. I can break it down, like all desert planets get 5 gems 5 metal markers, all Jungle planets get 5 exotica and 5 energy markers,ect,ect. the problem is i don't know what a reasonable number per planet is. I will have to look at the default galaxy, and that will take alot of time.

we want a random map but its proving difficult. maybe we should settle on default?

Well you wouldn't want to give even amounts of markers because of the fact different terrain is better for different things. Obviously desert worlds are great for trace/energy, barren worlds really great for trace, etc.

Several months ago I was messing around with the idea of making a very in depth guide to EFS. Part of it was tallying the numbers of resource markers in the historical galaxy. So, I figure you might make some use of the results:

Absolution:
Fertile - 10
Exotica - 0
Energy - 4
Metal - 3
Trace - 4
Gems - 2
Ruins - 5
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 0

Apshai:
Fertile - 19 (2 out of reach that can't be used)
Exotica - 2
Energy - 12
Metal - 0
Trace - 0
Gems - 2
Ruins - 5
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Aragon:
Fertile - 11
Exotica - 4
Energy - 8
Metal - 4
Trace - 2
Gems - 1
Ruins - 5
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 0

Artemis:
Fertile - 7
Exotica - 12
Energy - 8
Metal - 2
Trace - 0
Gems - 0
Ruins - 4
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 1

Aylon:
Fertile - 5
Exotica - 3
Energy - 5
Metal - 3
Trace - 4
Gems - 0
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Bannockburn:
Fertile - 14
Exotica - 1
Energy - 9
Metal - 2
Trace - 0
Gems - 0
Ruins - 4
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 0

Byzantium II:
Fertile - 5
Exotica - 0
Energy - 0
Metal - 0
Trace - 0
Gems - 0
Ruins - 0
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 0

Cadavus:
Fertile - 6
Exotica - 0
Energy - 7
Metal - 4
Trace - 14
Gems - 2
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 2

Cadiz:
Fertile - 14
Exotica - 1
Energy - 5
Metal - 5
Trace - 4
Gems - 2
Ruins - 4
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Chernobog:
Fertile - 0
Exotica - 14
Energy - 15
Metal - 5
Trace - 5
Gems - 5
Ruins - 5
Alien Ruins - 2
Monastery - 0

Criticorum:
Fertile - 5
Exotica - 1
Energy - 4
Metal - 4
Trace - 6
Gems - 0
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Daishin:
Fertile - 0
Exotica - 0
Energy - 12
Metal - 4
Trace - 11
Gems - 3
Ruins - 6
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 1

Delphi:
Fertile - 4
Exotica - 4
Energy - 2
Metal - 2
Trace - 2
Gems - 4
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 1

De Moley:
Fertile - 2
Exotica - 0
Energy - 6
Metal - 3
Trace - 4
Gems - 1
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 1

Grail:
Fertile - 9
Exotica - 1
Energy - 6
Metal - 5
Trace - 4
Gems - 1
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Gwynneth:
Fertile - 1
Exotica - 0
Energy - 3
Metal - 1
Trace - 4
Gems - 2
Ruins - 4
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 0

Holy Terra:
Fertile - 10
Exotica - 8
Energy - 9
Metal - 7
Trace - 6
Gems - 0
Ruins - 0
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 0

Icon:
Fertile - 7
Exotica - 4
Energy - 1
Metal - 1
Trace - 1
Gems - 1
Ruins - 6
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Istakhr:
Fertile - 8
Exotica - 0
Energy - 2
Metal - 4
Trace - 2
Gems - 3
Ruins - 2
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 0

Kish:
Fertile - 0
Exotica - 1
Energy - 6
Metal - 10
Trace - 3
Gems - 1
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 1

Leagueheim:
Fertile - 0
Exotica - 0
Energy - 0
Metal - 1
Trace - 1
Gems - 0
Ruins - 0
Alien Ruins -
Monastery - 0

Leminkainen:
Fertile - 5
Exotica - 4
Energy - 3
Metal - 3
Trace - 1
Gems - 2
Ruins - 2
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Madoc:
Fertile - 7
Exotica - 2
Energy - 10
Metal - 3
Trace - 5
Gems - 0
Ruins - 2
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Malignatius:
Fertile - 14
Exotica - 0
Energy - 0
Metal - 0
Trace - 0
Gems - 7
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 0

Manitou:
Fertile - 5
Exotica - 11
Energy - 6
Metal - 1
Trace - 4
Gems - 1
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 0

Midian:
Fertile - 10
Exotica - 2
Energy - 3
Metal - 6
Trace - 8
Gems - 4
Ruins - 5
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 0

Nowhere:
Fertile - 2
Exotica - 0
Energy - 8
Metal - 2
Trace - 5
Gems - 1
Ruins - 7
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 1

Pandemonium:
Fertile - 15
Exotica - 2
Energy - 2
Metal - 2
Trace - 4
Gems - 1
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 0

Pentateuch:
Fertile - 14
Exotica - 1
Energy - 8
Metal - 8
Trace - 4
Gems - 1
Ruins - 6
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Pyre:
Fertile - 7
Exotica - 0
Energy - 7
Metal - 4
Trace - 9
Gems - 1
Ruins - 5
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 0

Rampart:
Fertile - 2
Exotica - 14
Energy - 4
Metal - 3
Trace - 3
Gems - 0
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 0

Ravenna:
Fertile - 9
Exotica - 5
Energy - 5
Metal - 9
Trace - 2
Gems - 1
Ruins - 2
Alien Ruins - 2
Monastery - 2

Severus:
Fertile - 2
Exotica - 11
Energy - 3
Metal - 6
Trace - 1
Gems - 1
Ruins - 4
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 0

Shaprut:
Fertile - 3
Exotica - 3
Energy - 7
Metal - 5
Trace - 10
Gems - 4
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Stigmata:
Fertile - 6
Exotica - 7
Energy - 12
Metal - 6
Trace - 4
Gems - 0
Ruins - ???
Alien Ruins - 0
Monastery - 0

Sutek:
Fertile - 7
Exotica - 0
Energy - 8
Metal - 3
Trace - 5
Gems - 0
Ruins - 5
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 0

Tethys:
Fertile - 0
Exotica - 0
Energy - 0
Metal - 0
Trace - 0
Gems - 0
Ruins - 0
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Vau:
Fertile - 9
Exotica - 0
Energy - 10
Metal - 6
Trace - 4
Gems - 0
Ruins - 1
Alien Ruins - 2
Monastery - 0

Vera Cruz:
Fertile - 12
Exotica - 7
Energy - 13
Metal - 14
Trace - 6
Gems - 5
Ruins - 4
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 1

Vril-Ya:
Fertile - 12 (3 out of each not counted)
Exotica - 2
Energy - 5
Metal - 4
Trace - 2
Gems - 2
Ruins - 1
Alien Ruins - 1
Monastery - 0

Amazing thank you!

That is alot of interesting data and i will definately put it to good use.

For any one who is interested

Total Galaxy wide Markers (excluding the unreachables)
Fertile - 276
Exotica - 127
Energy - 218
Metal - 151
Trace - 138
Gems - 58
Ruins - 117
Alien Ruins - 26
Monastery - 20

Average per planet
Fertile - 7.08
Exotica - 3.26
Energy - 5.59
Metal - 3.87
Trace - 3.54
Gems - 1.49
Ruins - 3
Alien Ruins - 0.6666
Monastery - 0.51

There's three planets you might not want to count as 'normal', Leagueheim, Byzantium II, and Tethys. Tethys actually has no resource markers at all, kind of strange, as if they forgot to finish it. Leagueheim has 2 markers on it, Byzantium II with 5, since both are mega-city worlds. So I guess the decision was to make mega-city worlds fairly devoid of resources.

Another interesting stat is that 11 of the 40 historical planets do not have any gem markers, and 13 do not have any exotica markers. So if you do design a galaxy, make sure every planet isn't self sufficient (since if they could harvest every resource, you'd never have to transport resources to or from there).

I went ahead and did averages for the types of worlds in the historical galaxy. A few notes: I didn't include Tethys in the average, due to no markers. What I call "semi-frost" worlds are worlds that look frosty but are not actually the ice tileset, they use the normal tileset and are not generated in random galaxies as far as I can tell. They're extremely exotica rich. Red means it's significantly less than Garison's average, green means above. Didn't bother coloring any of the non-resources.

Keep in mind, these worlds were designed by hand, so the results from what the random generator produces might not reflect the same disparity.

Megacity: 2 - (Byzantium II, Leagueheim)
Fertile - 2.5
Exotica - 0.0
Energy - 0.0
Metal - 0.5
Trace - 0.5
Gems - 0.0
Ruins - 0.0
Alien Ruins - 0.0
Monastery - 0.0

Normal: 19 (Apshai, Aragon, Aylon, Bannockburn, Cadiz, Criticorum, Grail, Gwynneth, Holy Terra, Icon, Istakhr, Midian, Pandemonium, Pentateuch, Stigmata, Sutek, Tethys, Vau, Vera Cruz)
Fertile - 10.3
Exotica - 2.4
Energy - 7.2
Metal - 4.8
Trace - 4.0
Gems - 1.3
Ruins - 3.6
Alien Ruins - 0.9
Monastery - 0.4

Barren: 2 (Daishin, De Meloy)
Fertile - 1.0
Exotica - 0.0
Energy - 9.0
Metal - 3.5
Trace - 7.5
Gems - 2.0
Ruins - 4.5
Alien Ruins - 0.0
Monastery - 1.0

Desert: 5 (Cadavus, Kish, Nowhere, Pyre, Shaprut)
Fertile - 3.6
Exotica - 0.8
Energy - 7.0
Metal - 5.0
Trace - 8.2
Gems - 1.8
Ruins - 4.2
Alien Ruins - 0.6
Monastery - 1.0


Jungle: 4 (Chernobog, Leminkainen, Ravenna, Severus)
Fertile - 4.0
Exotica - 8.5
Energy - 6.5
Metal - 5.8
Trace - 2.3
Gems - 2.3
Ruins - 3.3
Alien Ruins - 1.3
Monastery - 0.8

Island: 3 (Absolution, Madoc, Vril-Ya)
Fertile - 9.7
Exotica - 1.3
Energy - 6.3
Metal - 3.3
Trace - 3.7
Gems - 1.3
Ruins - 2.7
Alien Ruins - 1.0
Monastery - 0.3

Frost: 2 (Delphi, Malignatius)
Fertile - 9.0
Exotica - 2.0
Energy - 1.0
Metal - 1.0
Trace - 1.0
Gems - 5.5
Ruins - 3.0
Alien Ruins - 0.5
Monastery - 0.5

Semi-frost: 3 (Artemis, Manitou, Rampart)
Fertile - 4.7
Exotica - 12.3
Energy - 6.0
Metal - 2.0
Trace - 2.3
Gems - 0.3
Ruins - 3.3
Alien Ruins - 0.3
Monastery - 1.3

ah im so anxious to start lol...i've never used the map editor before but let me know if/what i can do to help, maybe i can help setup the planet terrain layouts? idk just let me know if i can helpyou out at all
-Nick

once i realized the the EFS map editor does not add rebels or terrain markers, i suggested we play the default. It could take me weeks to truely balance the map i have generated. I am still very interested in creating the map, however for the sake of time (we might lose players) we should find a better solution.

i apologize for leading you folks on, i was unaware at how limited the random generator f the EFS map editor was.

interesting statistics russel, i will incorperate the concepts into my design, (heheheh and my game play!)

It won´t hurt much if we wait one more week, as I won´t be available this weekend.
On the other hand: Don´t overdo it with the balancing. We have 5 players with different experience so the prescribed balance may be blasted after a few turns. I also believe there is more flavor to a not totally balanced world.

Garison wrote:once i realized the the EFS map editor does not add rebels or terrain markers, i suggested we play the default. It could take me weeks to truely balance the map i have generated. I am still very interested in creating the map, however for the sake of time (we might lose players) we should find a better solution.

i apologize for leading you folks on, i was unaware at how limited the random generator f the EFS map editor was.

interesting statistics russel, i will incorperate the concepts into my design, (heheheh and my game play!)

Hi Guys,

was ill last week so couldn't really do much in the way of posting.

I have however been messing with the troyan map to change a few spaceroutes, mostly in the Hazat sphere of influence (they were right next to the fleet/eye homeworld and only had one other border to expand). Also I've added a small 'battle planet' for us to have something to fight over at the start (1 mine, farm, well, one unique resource producer and a fort each). It's in symbiont space however so we might have to stick together there or lose it, which should also prevent the game becomming unbalanced if someone manages to claim the planet with ease at the start. (could remove it, but the idea sounded fun to me)

The troyan map seems fairly balanced, and as we all have acces (I'll send the galaxy file) we won't have to suffer any 'lack of knowledge' problems.