New Game on vanilla EFS 1.4

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Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:36 pm

hmmm, difficulty only effects trait selection points right? why not put us all on easy, and simplely end the empire creation with a surplus of trait points ?

as for the bulk warp-transfer-land thing i see 2 scenarios;

1) you have a bulk hauler with 3 movement in orbit, or on the planet; therfor you have space superiority.
2) you have a bulk hauler with 3 movement landed on the planet, but lack space superiority;

i think thats why you mean right?

To get a bualk hauler on the planet with no control of the planets orbit means: a really really damaged ship(blockade runner that survived), you are the the most daft diplomat/weasel of the 5 houses, or the planet was foolishly left unguarded.

in all cases i think the tactic is fine and balanced. if someone lets a bunch of enemy haulers fly and land around there planet they deserve to get bum-rushed. At the maximum you get a 1 turn advantage in troop-to-frontline movement because you can send a fleet of empty haulers ahead of your haulers containing troops, but it would require twice as many haulers.
Last edited by Garison on Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

swordsaint
Fighter pilot
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece

Postby swordsaint » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:43 pm

That's an idea but now we started...

Actually I had an idea also after we started, which appeals to me and adds to the roleplaying. That was that we start the game at beginner difficulty and we leave the traits as the game has them for every house. This way everyone has some strong traits (hawkwood and li halan the loyalty ones, decados the increased food production, hazat the warrior ethic and administration and al malik everything about money) and it is suited to every noble house. But now we started, perhaps in the next game.
Chronomancy: the art and science of divining the appropriate time for an act.

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:51 pm

well no offence but what was the purpose of choosing traits by the balancing system if i'm not able to pick my traits? the only thing preventing me from picking them is that you started the game before i posted my trait selections.

i haven't even taken a turn yet :/

i think we should wait until all the games "settings" are hammered out before we start.

LeperColony
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:01 am
Location: CA

Postby LeperColony » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:05 pm

That was sort of my point too.

For the record, I support allowing carriers, but not freighters or assault landers, to be able to unload fighters and attack.

Nick Cav
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:58 pm
Location: Hauppauge, NY

Postby Nick Cav » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:23 pm

hey, i dont get why we need to go by the point scoring system? why cant i just pick whatever traits I want? You guys all have the same choices you can make, so whats the difference?

swordsaint
Fighter pilot
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece

Postby swordsaint » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:02 pm

For the bulk hauler/carriers okay, let's do it that way. Fighter spacecraft in carriers can attack at the same turn, in haulers or landers it cannot.

Now what is this about the traits? I thought we were over with that. Nick, I didn't choose the idea of balancing traits myself (I voted for no traits at all) but the majority wanted it, so we should do it this way. I mean come on, it doesn't matter so much, do it this way and let's start playing.

Edit: I think we have resolved all of the game rules issues, except for the traits. We had agreed that we will choose the traits by the balanced system. If you want to do something else let's vote and get over it. Personally, I couldn't care less what system we choose, as long as we all uphold it.
Chronomancy: the art and science of divining the appropriate time for an act.

LeperColony
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:01 am
Location: CA

Postby LeperColony » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:44 pm

I think the theory behind traits was that so we could all customize our houses a little. But the way they work, some traits are just sort of pointless and others are almost necessary.

If we look at the traits that the three users have already declared, we don't see them as acting in a way that differentiates one house from another. Rather, the loyalty trait seems to be essential, and all three of them have very similar (identical in two cases) selections. That being the case, I would think it'd be easier to just skip traits all together.

Russell
Noble
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 2:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Russell » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:47 am

The reason traits were balanced is because some are buggy and some are overpowered. For two traits you can get +20 loyalty. That's +20 loyalty to all cities and all units. Your units will never rout and will never need an officer to attain this level. I think you can see how having units that don't rout would be essential. Then you can just choose two irrelevant negative traits that do nothing. So unless someone purposefully wanted to cripple themselves, they would ALWAYS select the +20 loyalty, only out of ignorance or masochism would they not. There is absolutely no reason not to. However, with balanced traits, each of these +10 loyalty traits are assigned a value of +12 to reflect its relative power. In a +0 game it'd be impossible to get both, and in a +6 game (like this one), getting both would require you take a -10 loyalty trait, thus making taking two pointless.

I'm OK with skipping traits altogether or using balanced traits. 1:1 traits is broken and ridiculous and is why the balanced traits ever arose and became the standard virtually every serious EFS or Nova game used.

Also, going by the default traits selected for a house isn't a good idea in practice (it's actually cool for role playing, but it wouldn't be balanced).

LeperColony
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:01 am
Location: CA

Postby LeperColony » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:36 am

Given that we're all going to end up with the same, or very similar, traits (for reasons Russel described), I think we should just ignore them completely.

swordsaint
Fighter pilot
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece

Postby swordsaint » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:13 am

Let's ignore them then. Does everyone agree?
Chronomancy: the art and science of divining the appropriate time for an act.

Russell
Noble
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 2:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Russell » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:03 pm

I can agree to that. I've always felt two traits were vital, warrior ethic and one of the two +10 loyalty traits. Things like added research early on are pretty negligible 50 turns in, while having units that come out as expert instead of green and having units harder to rout are huge, galaxy wide advantages.

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:09 pm

no traits it is; happy hunting!

Nick Cav
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:58 pm
Location: Hauppauge, NY

Postby Nick Cav » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:07 pm

ok well if we're doing no traits then lets start the game, please send me my turn again, for the third time lol

swordsaint
Fighter pilot
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece

Postby swordsaint » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:10 pm

For the third time, I sent the save game to nick cav. Have a good game everybody and enjoy!
Chronomancy: the art and science of divining the appropriate time for an act.

Kosh2
Noble
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:01 am
Location: Zaragoza (Spain)
Contact:

Postby Kosh2 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:49 pm

It's great: people playing a PBEM EFS game.
I wonder if you could make an AAR


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