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Russell
Noble
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 2:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Russell » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:51 am

Yea, waiting is better than the quitting. The problem with EFS in general is this is what seems to always happen, and just getting rid of that house is never a good solution. Back in the past we had a similar situation with a player that was in war being replaced, and he was given a ten turn truce to get things settled before it resumed. Maybe something like that could be worked out if someone is interested but hesitant. But the political landscape can change quickly. These Hawkwood fellows are getting restless, and aren't up to nothing at all.

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:08 pm

Tot has e-mailed me back, so he is still alive and kicking. He is having a heaping dose of life at the moment, and has been been occupied with that.
I will find out if he is willing to continue playing. He said he will post on the forums, so we can wait for his response.

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:39 pm

hey says he is uninterested in continuing so we will need to find a replacement

Sangfugol
Fighter pilot
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:25 pm

Postby Sangfugol » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:48 pm

Can you give an overview of the leftovers of house li halan and how it got into trouble?

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:18 am

Preliminary attacks have been made against Li-Halan but no ground assault has started. There spacefleet is in disarry.

the war started with a sneak attack on manitou which was owned by me. Li-Halan and decados joined forces to control the planet. I counter-attacked with Hazat support and have an orbital fleet above 2 or 3 li-halan planets. the war was turning in my favor.

I am unsure of the political landscape with regard to hawkwood.

Li-halan has switched players twice, so i would assume the planets are slightly less then organized.

As i was the one attacked, i would expect some sort of compensation for not going through with my current attack. I have alot to gain, and little to lose at the moment (imho). However, i will agree to a ten turn peace if something can be arranged.

Russell
Noble
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 2:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Russell » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:52 am

Hawkwood political landscape:

"alliance" with Li Halan and al-Malik, but more or less non-aggression pacts than anything. The first Li Halan player was trying to build a strong pact with me, and wanting me to help invade Aragon. The second Li Halan has never contacted me. I have made sure not to commit fully to anything. I'm one that believes a few things regarding EFS: never absolutely cripple another empire. Crippling one empire doesn't do you much good because then there's still three more. And playing out a game of EFS to complete conquest could possibly go on for centuries...of real life. If you have the strength to defeat the other four houses, then it makes sense to try to control the planets around Byzantium II, kill the nobles, etc. So if it seems the Li Halan are being wiped out, then I would strike out against their attackers, which would in all likelihood be Hazat or al-Malik planets that are difficult for them to reinforce. Once a house gets too weak, they tend not to want to play their turns anymore.

The main two reasons I generally oppose full scale empire destruction:

Invading even one fortified planet can be a hellish endeavor. Especially in EFS 1.4. Games would last for eons if the main goal was to conquer the galaxy.

Fairness for the player. You can be the underdog and seize the advantage at some point when the powerhouses destroy each other's forces. So keeping people in and not impotent is something I've always subscribed to.

Now I'm confused. Decados and Li Halan attacked the al-Malik? But now the Decados/al-Malik/Hazat are attacking Li Halan? I really feel like I'm in the dark to what's actually happening.

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:19 pm

Not to be rude, but keeping you in the dark was part of my plan.

As i see it you were the biggest threat to my expansion at the time. hazat is basicly on the opposite side of the map and not as big an empire yet, so i was devising a plan to capture some scepters and hopefully keep you at bay well i used them. Part of my pact with decados was his changed allegiance for control of the imperial fleet.

I honestly had a rather indepth plan with many levels of complexity to in. I think it was a masterwork strategy myself and every thing had been going according to plan. So far almost all details have fallen into place and i am/was on the verge of making some great gains. I really don't want to give out the details, because information in enemy hands cripples a good strategy.

i have the right people in the right places to capture or cripple li-halans homeworld. I was currently trying to track scepters, and move in for the "steal". The ten turn peace will force me to completely rethink and reposition most of my forces and alliances.

*sigh* although i didn't overtly provoke li-halan, i did leave certain planets and assest "vunerable" to decados and lihalan forces. this was an attempt to get li-halan to move on me and give me a reason to fight back. I planned it this was so that hawkwood would not interfer in the battle, and i could rally Hazat into aiding me at criticorum. Decados wanted the imperial fleet pretty bad, and i figured i could use that as leaverage to pursuade him to switch sides mid-fight. This would leave me free to counter-attack unhindered.

Winning the election was also part of my plan, and allowing Hazat the Stigmata also played into my favor. I am trying to avoid the situation that li-halan is in now, all out war with multiple houses. I think Political domination is the key to success in this game, and that war is but a political tool.

I have put alot of hardwork into getting this "situation" just right. And i feel like i am getting swindled simplely because we are switching players.

I like politics. I am a good at it

Russell
Noble
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 2:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Russell » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:56 pm

Right, but part of that strategy plays on the fact the second Li Halan player has been completely silent and never said "hey I'm being attacked by three houses", when that should have been the first thing they did, in which case I would have attacked Istakhr or Aragon. I'm still not sure why they never asked me for aid. Suppose for example, I offer the Decados the fleet and al-Malik planets in exchange for his votes, or a pact with the Hazat to make us both stronger, etc. You can never be sure of when people will decide to be with you or not, and I doubt any house is particularly looking forward to an al-Malik (or anyone) with 10 scepters.

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:57 pm

regardless of scenario, the fact remain.

I was attacked.

Now that i have an advantage over my attacker(s), I am being asked to retreat with nothing.

I have taken risks, and on the verge of achieving results, i am being asked to pack my bags, accept my loses, and pretend like it never happened ?

that sounds great from your perspective, as you have risked nothing, and lost nothing.

I have risked my entire empire in this. Decados could have stayed in the fight. Hazat could of remained neutral. You could of attacked. But, through my political maneuvering none of this occured.

With all that i have risked, why should i give up what i have won ?

P.S.

I just want to add that i am having a great time playing and chatting. I respect your opinion, and value you as a player. I wanted to make that clear incase this limited medium paints me with an unfriendly tone. I think this very debate is going to add alot to the game, and maybe be the galatic "straw" that cracks the game open and makes for a more...turbulent...exciting?....game.
I am not trying to be difficult, i am simplely trying not to lose the game over events that are not "in-game". I hope you understand this and are not viewing me as holding up the game, or purposely trying to stall or anything. I am enjoying the debate, and would like to see more of the players (and possiblely the replacement) speak up and join in.
This matter effects us all greatly from an in-game standpoint, and we should all be striving to "have fun" with it.
If the group decided a 10 turn truce is what the solution is, i am not going to argue (much ;) )

Russell
Noble
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 2:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Russell » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:22 pm

Garison, I actually don't care if there is absolutely no deviation from your currents plans. It would probably result in me attacking your empire, or continuing with my other secret plan, but I don't think you should be punished for what you've done.

The problem is finding a serious player that wants to take over the Li Halan under those circumstances. Killing off Li Halan without the natural resistance (which could take decades) would damage the game beyond repair. I certainly would have struck out at another house by now if it was only a 4 player game, to avoid a scenario of 3 vs 1 with no fifth player to call to for aid. So definitely, we need to find a replacement. If someone is willing to come in and have no break from the attacks, I'm fine with that, Li Halan losing worlds is not particularly damaging to my own current schemes. Ultimately what matters is what the replacement is or isn't willing to do.

Sangfugol
Fighter pilot
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:25 pm

Postby Sangfugol » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:00 am

seems like waiting another 12 hours before replying was worth it :)

to garision:
taking over the crosspoint between li halan, decados and the vau homeworld is already some kind of provocation even if your homeworld is only two jumps away.

I agree that the developing progress shouldn´t be stopped immediately, after all your effort. Do you think you can reach your most important targets in say 3-5 turns? (with defense from li-halan, moving sceptors, even then I´m sure you will get through)
If thats enough for you then there is still the war with hazat and decados. As you described, they are your junior partners. Would they also accept the capitulation? At least both got a ministry and a weakened neighbor as reward.

If garision could send me the current turn and sb. the password I would like to try.

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:12 pm

you will need to e-mail me at enx_@hotmail.com and i will send you the turn.
I appreciate you taking control, and hopefully everything works out for you.

LeperColony
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:01 am
Location: CA

Postby LeperColony » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:36 am

It's been a while, so I may be fuzzy on the details, but I'm at war with the al-Malik. Li Halan and I were at war (we were the first to go to war) because the 1st Li Halan player threatened me, I rejected his ultimatum, and won a brief war that cost him some frieghters and (probably) caused him to quit.

Then the second Li Halan player and I made peace, since I didn't want to be fighting anyway. Li Halan and al-Malik got into it somehow, and I rejected the al-Malik demand to join him, so he and I are at war.

If Li Halan gets a ten turn truce, I'll probably have to negotiate one as well, or I'd be screwed going up against Li Halans enemies alone.

Russell
Noble
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 2:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Russell » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:44 am

I can assure you the Imperial Fleet is more than enough to fend off any house in the game right now, including myself. I figured you were part of the coalition to destroy the Li Halan. If that isn't the case, then a good old Hawkwood intervention can help settle things.

Sangfugol
Fighter pilot
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:25 pm

Postby Sangfugol » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:43 pm

There will be no truce, at least not for the next couple of turns until garision will get what (at least a nice part of it) he wanted or until he and nick won´t be able to uphold the siege anymore - or part of both.

(btw I sent my turn two days ago, I assume leper got the turn?)


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