Precoding

all the talk around the remake

Moderator: Deathifier

Deathifier
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Re: Precoding

Postby Deathifier » Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:22 am

I like the idea, so in my engine, I will have the ability to turn on and off your production facilities.
Seems like that slipped past, even though it has no real use for EFS (unless we implement gradual resource usage) since you can't build more than one thing in a city at a time.

Thanks Jakkan

I think it should not be possible to build troops in farms, arboreums, mines etc. basic cities. However, they could have sort of home guard in case an enemy is trying to capture them (pop up just for the fight). Improved levels of that city would make the troops also more powerful.
The ability to be able to build them is up to the mod designer, I think the current arty/anti-tank/etc type weapons would turn into city upgrades. Militia or similar should still be possible to represent the use of something like Draft, perhaps these units come out with a permanent loyalty hit and each time one is produced the city loyalty takes a large temporary hit (taking a few years to recover).

Cities having permanent organic defenders may be stretching it a bit, as this really represents a panicing noble drafting/arming local militia to man the defenses if nothing better is around - this would take time, at least a turn IMO.

Of course the engine may want to handle all scenario's, which would be great provided we had fine control over what actually happens :)

Stacks, ah, stacks, settling this debate is going to be fun, I think I'll start a new topic for it ;)

Also please move discussions about specific features into their own thread if possible, makes it much easier to track progress.

- Deathifier

Grimly
Assasin
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 1:01 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Precoding

Postby Grimly » Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:09 am

I believe Macroz and his devilish book have given us a clue as to the command (administrative and tactical) structure of at least the Imperial infantry, and therefore the intended size of legionary units.

From "Legions of the Empire," 7 legions = 70000 men (each legion including 640 officers, my estimate from the below). So:

35 (5x) regiments of 2000 men (128 officers)
140 (4x) battalions of 500 men (32 officers)
560 (4x) companies of 125 men (8 officers)
1680 (3x) platoons of 41.6 men (2.6 officers)
5040 (3x) squads of 12 men + 1 noncom (0 officers)

1) There are other ways to work out these numbers, but the roundness of these numbers is convincing to me, plus the way they logically move up from a tactically useful tripartite formation to an administratively useful 5-way structure.

2) Further, 1 legion thus = 20 battalions, leading me to believe that infantry units are battalions and that 1 stack = 1 legion. Of course the officer corps (640 men or 1 battalion per legion) wouldn't fit, but 20 battalions don't need an officer corps to function. Anyway, I don't think a legion was ever supposed to move all in one stack like that, and you never see the AI doing it.

3) Finally, 140 seems to me to be a better prediction of the number (7 stacks) of infantry units on Stigmata at turn 100 of an original EFS game (when HDI expects the Wars to end) than does 35 (2 stacks)! Besides, the Garrison legions are not all infantry.

This structure also can be adapted for tanks if you halve the numbers and assume 4 men per crew (one an officer), 4 tanks in a platoon, and cavalry organization:

1 legion = 5000 men in 1000 tanks
5 (5x) regiments of 1000 men in 200 tanks
20 (4x) battalions of 200 men in 50 tanks + 50 support (field batteries, etc.)
40 (2x) squadrons of 100 men in 25 tanks (including 1 command tank)
80 (2x) troops of 50 men in 12 tanks
240 (3x) platoons of 16 men in 4 tanks
960 (4x) tanks of 3 crew and 1 officer

or 5 men per crew, 4 tanks in a platoon, and cavalry organization:

20 (4x) battalions of 250 men in 50 tanks
40 (2x) squadrons of 125 men in 25 tanks (including 1 command tank)
80 (2x) troops of 60 men in 12 tanks
240 (3x) platoons of 20 men in 4 tanks
960 (4x) tanks of 3 crew and 1 officer

or 4 men per crew, 5 tanks in a platoon, and infantry organization:

20 (4x) battalions of 200 men in 50 tanks (including 1 command platoon) + 50 support (field batteries, etc.)
60 (3x) companies of 60 men in 15 tanks
180 (3x) platoons of 20 men in 5 tanks
900 (5x) tanks of 4 crew and 1 officer

or 5 men per crew, 5 tanks in a platoon, and infantry organization:

20 (4x) battalions of 250 men in 50 tanks (including 2 command tanks)
60 (3x) companies of 75 men in 15 tanks + a command tank (= 80 men)
180 (3x) platoons of 25 men in 5 tanks
900 (5x) tanks of 4 crew and 1 officer


Again, this arithmetic works wonderfully, though it doesn't help us decide whether tank units should be companies or battalions. Of course, there aren't any tank legions---only a fifth or 2/5 of a legion might be tanks---but let's see what's on Stigmata at game's end:

"Stigmata hosts seven legions: The Third, Fifth, Seventh, Ninth and Eleventh Imperial legions, the Manifest Light occult legion and the Scions of Zhal, a Brother Battle legion. The Third, Seventh and Eleventh legions are based at Darmak Station; the latter two mainly specialize in cavalry and air support. The Fifth, Ninth, based in Sylan, are mainly infantry units. The Scions of Zhal, based in Darmak but with companies [note "companies"] in Sylan, consists of equal parts elite infantry and cavalry. Manifest Light soldiers are assigned to various units throughout Stigmata, in space and planetside
...
Each legion is composed of about 10000 troops and has about five regiments. ..."

3rd: mainly infantry, say 4 plus 1 tank
5th: mainly infantry, say 4 plus 1 tank
7th: cavalry with support, say 3 tanks and 2 infantry
9th: mainly infantry, say 4 plus 1 tank
11th: air with support, say 12 squadrons (battalions) of planes, 2 regiments infantry
ML: occult, probably a core of infantry and numerous occult auxiliaries: 2 infantry, 2 occult
BB/SZ: infantry and cavalry equally, or 2 + 2 + 1 other support

Totals:
20 infantry regiments = 80 battalions = 4 stacks
8 tank regiments = 32 tank battalions (assuming cavalry = tanks) = 1.6 stacks
7 regiments = an absolute maximum of 112 gun batteries, air squadrons, and other support companies: scouts, rangers, shock troops, foot knights, nobles, psywarriors, etc etc etc. = 5.6 stacks at the company level

Total of 12 stacks. Looks to me like the old Stigmata Garrison I know and . . . long ago found way too crowded.

<small>[ 01.10.2004, 04:57: Message edited by: Grimly Fiendish ]</small>
Grimly


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