What is it about EFS?

all the talk around the remake

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Grimly
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What is it about EFS?

Postby Grimly » Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:45 pm

I just wondered. Many different opinions and points of view are presented in this forum, both conservative and radical. But no one here is satisfied with either the original EFS or the mods. So if the game is so half-baked, buggy, and incomplete, why do we love it so?

I'll start us off. Note that although this topic is not intended to produce a wish list, my hope is that it could illuminate the project's broader goals.

I like (1) the human scale against the vast backdrop of known space (2) the expression of raw power vs nobility in an utterly amoral universe (3) the campy space opera theme, so completely opposite to our reality (4) the level of ambiguity/abstraction. By that I mean that the simplicity and lack of detail allow one to imagine the action better. (5) the art (the good, Byzantine-style art, not the cartoony art!)

(Conversely, then, I would disapprove (1) a remake without individual personalities (2) a uniformity of military-style "clean" combat without assassinations, genocide, treachery, body modifications, and other outrageous crimes (3) imposing "realistic" WW2 or modern Western assumptions at the expense of feudal/tribal personal/hand-to-hand combat (4) too-detailed techs and units. I think the tech tree and the unit pool need to be larger, but again I cite Alpha Centauri as a drearily overplanned experience---you might as well be at work as play that game, with all the meaningless made-up techs and units. (5) bad art.)

What I don't like: (1) the equation of Nobles with Legions, size-wise, with no mediating principles---what's real? (2) the lack of functioning Church politics (3) the idiot AI (4) the too-large ground and time scales (5) the apparent disregard for the semifeudal milieu EFS presents (where are all these peasants?) (6) the resource production curve, from painful to bloated.

In short, I'm a conservative, but when i see truly innovative stuff like Macroz's planet maps I can see the value in a radical approach.
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Macroz
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Re: What is it about EFS?

Postby Macroz » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:56 am

Here's a short analysis of my current feelings.

Things done well:
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Interesting setting</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Diverse (multiple planets, wildly different factions)</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Distinct visual style (and music)</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The first turns are fun and I feel like I'm controlling my destiny ...</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Things to improve:
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">... but then I become a counter pusher and the fun is lost. Far too much work to play.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Buggy and incomplete features</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dated technology</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is much more to the FS setting than is used in the game (barbarians, aliens, guilds, sects, occult)</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Captures mostly only the military aspect of the setting (it's a very simple wargame but it could be more)</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
What I want to do is to take the full Fading Suns setting, apply some guidelines from our world (past and present as they apply to the setting) and make a deep and complete space opera. That some part of the world is controlled by non-computer AIs (that's us) is almost an afterthought :D .

P.S. I don't like Alpha Centauri either. I think it's the worst game I have paid full price for but not all people hate it. I guess we can learn something from that.

Grimly
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Re: What is it about EFS?

Postby Grimly » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:04 am

I'm glad you put a high priority on the AI. So many of the difficulties with hacking EFS stem from the problem of the simply AI refusing to copperate with whatever you are trying to imagine. I've been playing Wesnoth for fun, and I'm impressed with how flexible but deadly the AI is. It takes risks that sometimes don't pay off, but these mistakes don't come along often. Compare with EFS, where the nobles don't seem to budge no matter how powerful you make them.

Alpha Centauri does do some things well. The tech-stealing works great, and the tech tree is almost immersive. But where's the fun? (and the tanks?) It seems designed by efficiency experts. In comparison, Wesnoth sets a standard for cleanness and straightforwardness that every game developer should strive for.
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Re: What is it about EFS?

Postby Grimly » Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:58 am

I guess this thread died! :(
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cy387_lk
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Re: What is it about EFS?

Postby cy387_lk » Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:52 pm

:)
Do I like science fiction? Sure! But only a bad one!...
("Tales of Pirx The Pilot" after Stanislaw Lem)


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