What's the status on the EFS Clone?

all the talk around the remake

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jknight5422
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What's the status on the EFS Clone?

Postby jknight5422 » Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:58 pm

Hi All,

Is anybody working on it? Is it being placed on
sourceforge.net?

I for one would like to see the Vau have more
of a role in the game. I recently bought
the Fading Suns D20 rpg book from
DriveThruRPG.com & could see how the Vau could
be made more useful.

They're supposed to be mysterious but are far from
benevolent. The source material states they
attack anyone that attacks anyone under their
rule. Some new alien counters could be put in
place sprinkled around the map such that when
attacked, the Vau declare war against you &
start sending forces at you.

Using the diplomacy window, you could try to get
them to attack other Houses, maybe giving some
chance of them attacking you for a few rounds
(since they're enigmatic & unpredictable).

"Minor" Alien units could be different races
that could have some kind of reward for their
conquest to make it worth taking them. Perhaps
you can add to the technology tree under
psychology. Extend past the vau/symbiot
psychology to include minor race psychology.
Then extend to allow a player to build the
alien units in those cities once captured.

The source material has Minor Houses.
In the game, these are all clumped as Rebels,
but you could change this so that instead of
just rebels, you get minor houses that function
on their own & can be used as allies or targets
with each minor house adding some new ability or
reward for their capture of a Minor House
Palace. You still need rebels of course, Minor
Houses are just a step above. That may have
some secret they hide that you have to get by
having them ally with you or by conquering them.

There are other alien races not covered that
are in the book which could useful: Ur-Obun,
Ukari, Volox. You could also use aliens similar
to WH40k that would match pretty well. Or
pretty much any sci-fi setting, such as the
interesting & strange Chtorr in David Gerrold's
books.

Another thing that would be useful would be
a "GM" Option. Allow a gamemaster to operate
some, none, or all of the computer-controlled
parts including all diplomatic relations. Symbiots
are somewhat mindless so I would keep those
computer controlled. But this would allow you
to do things outside the bounds of the program,
like asking the Vau to attack the Symbiots in
exchange for a ton of creds or ownership of a
planet under your control. Have the GM move the
Vau units into the Palace & allow them to build
units there based on their own internal abilities.

These are the features that I'd like to see,
if anyone is working on it. I wish Holistic
Design would make a sequel. It's a fun game.

Thanks,
Blademaster

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cy387_lk
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Re: What's the status on the EFS Clone?

Postby cy387_lk » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:38 am

Where did you write this, notepad? :D Just kidding...

I'm not actually part of this clone-making here, still I deal with similar stuff; so in general the things would be similar too.

Some new alien counters could be put in
place sprinkled around the map such that when
attacked, the Vau declare war against you &
start sending forces at you.
Nice, but it would be "Vau" at the end anyway.

Vau declare war against you &
start sending forces at you.
IMHO: I'd consider that strange of Vau. They protect their territory but even in the case of war they'd never invade Human Space (they don't need it). Also by the books Vau are to be superior race which cannot be wiped out by one house. It'd be more real to give Vau passive but overwhelming forces to stop any "stupid" wishes to conquer them. And they have to be made to recover their territories in the case they lose any.

Using the diplomacy window, you could try to get
them to attack other Houses, maybe giving some
chance of them attacking you for a few rounds
(since they're enigmatic & unpredictable).
Any demand from any human is an insult to Vau. In other words all diplomacy is one-sided with them. Vau don't play human's games, and of course nobody can buy a Vau, especially for fireburds which are no use inside their empire. "Enigmatic - yes, Unpredictable - no, humans are unpredictable, Vau have their goal and ultimate logic. The only thing humans know: any attack will be quickly neutralized.

"Minor" Alien units could be different races
that could have some kind of reward for their
conquest to make it worth taking them. Perhaps
you can add to the technology tree under
psychology. Extend past the vau/symbiot
psychology to include minor race psychology.
Then extend to allow a player to build the
alien units in those cities once captured.
About alien buildings - too complicated. Still it has its benefits. Most of the minor alien races are already conquered by humans, so it's already supposed they are everywhere, mixed inside the human's space, life and culture. Still the possibility to recreate their own planets would be great allowing player to capture their "technologies" - produce units of their own kind, etc.

The source material has Minor Houses.
In the game, these are all clumped as Rebels,
but you could change this so that instead of
just rebels, you get minor houses that function
on their own & can be used as allies or targets
with each minor house adding some new ability or
reward for their capture of a Minor House
Palace. You still need rebels of course, Minor
Houses are just a step above. That may have
some secret they hide that you have to get by
having them ally with you or by conquering them.
- No comments. One of the most wanted ideas here.

There are other alien races not covered that
are in the book which could useful: Ur-Obun,
Ukari, Volox. You could also use aliens similar
to WH40k that would match pretty well. Or
pretty much any sci-fi setting, such as the
interesting & strange Chtorr in David Gerrold's
books.
Their fate lies with other races conquered by humans. They have neither real power nor technology to exist independently.

But this would allow you
to do things outside the bounds of the program,
like asking the Vau to attack the Symbiots in
exchange for a ton of creds or ownership of a
planet under your control. Have the GM move the
Vau units into the Palace & allow them to build
units there based on their own internal abilities.
See the first paragraph. Vau are not expansionists.

...

<small>[ 05.07.2005, 18:42: Message edited by: cy387_lk ]</small>
Do I like science fiction? Sure! But only a bad one!...
("Tales of Pirx The Pilot" after Stanislaw Lem)

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cy387_lk
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Re: What's the status on the EFS Clone?

Postby cy387_lk » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:06 pm

About stealing Vau tech I could write relatively big article, describing turn based strategy balance, good and bad sides. And maybe one day I'll write something about this gender. For now just a few words about that idea.
It’s good to make possible to capture Vau and Symbiots units (as it is in EFS), but not their technologies or ability to produce their specific tech. Maybe just a few relatively primitive techs of their kind, no more.

In Symbiots case it's pretty simple. Humans are not touched by metamorphosis, so any attempts in this area are useless. Only Symbiots can control their "living" tech. And chances they would work for humans are infinitely bleak.

Vau are different. Yes they have "normal" but highly advanced tech partially passed to them from the Progenitors. But as it is said humans have no knowledge of Vau's magnetic fields that power the crystal material Vau use as the main material for all types of tools, buildings and machines. And this knowledge is well guarded and too advanced to be exploited by humans. Finally if we'll take a look at the game, any Vau tech in the hands of one house is out of balance. And the last makes games really interesting.

Still most of us (including me) would like to see more of the Vau. And there are other methods to achieve that.

P.S. ...Don't really know why I wrote all that, just hate to see the projects frozen.
Do I like science fiction? Sure! But only a bad one!...

("Tales of Pirx The Pilot" after Stanislaw Lem)

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Re: What's the status on the EFS Clone?

Postby Floppo » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:44 pm

I'm very excited about this project, but I'm a bit concerned to see that there are very few posts and that most of them are rather old.

Is this project still active? If so, how far along is it? I'm assuming it will be released as freeware when/if it's finished?

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Re: What's the status on the EFS Clone?

Postby Phries » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:24 am

A knowledgeable flash-er could recreate the engine in a weekend. I'd be cool if built as just the engine and you created the units, planets and maybe some gameplay options. :D

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Re: What's the status on the EFS Clone?

Postby Kosh2 » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:34 pm

1eyedparrot saidthat was working in a Java engine
http://www.kborek.cz/forum/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000204

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Re: What's the status on the EFS Clone?

Postby pjtr » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:23 pm

"I can see.."

Please note that I have never played EFS longer than 3 turns, so my opinion may not fit the audience of this game.

From my experience as a ( hobby play by email ) game designer I would recommend You to make things more simple than more complicated.

Game depth is not necessarily given by the complexity of the game engine ( i.e. number of technologies, movement possibilities, trade goods ). Too often, tedious micromanagment spoils the fun of the game, or game balance issues either make one strategy the best or do not allow any player to win ( the "endless war" scenario ). Especially if You want to create a multiplayer game, these things must be taken into consideration.

In my opinion such a game has a good chance to take off - but right now I see the danger of the 'talking the project' into the grave.

My suggestions:

Present a simple (!) concept at the beginning, which can be extended later on. Do not loose Yourself into details, but outline on which level of detail You want to create the game world, and how You want to bring strategy/tactics/player interaction into play. Again: the simpler, the better. Make the blueprints for Your game engine ( one program or host/client solution? ). In short: Make and publish a work plan for the project.

I hope that helped a little,

Piotr ( iyhael@yahoo.de )

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Re: What's the status on the EFS Clone?

Postby Oreste » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:13 am

I think this would be good if it got off the ground. Ive played EFS since it came out when i was a young kid. Anyways if you are going to make a clone keep the same concept of the original but add a little bit more flair to the space combat area. Another area of improvement I would make over the original is somehow creating a stronger AI I have not played EFS over email simply because there hasnt been any challengers so im suggesting this for the casual single player mode ppl out there. Furthermore what kind of help do you guys need to make this work? I mean I have some skills that may be useful, but Id like to know whats needed to see if I can help in this endeavor.

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other clone?

Postby BrodieBrodie » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:34 pm

am i the only one doing an EFS clone? With all the talk and interest on these pages i find this difficult to believe.

if another clone is in the works, please post a link to its development, or inform of its status.

the link to my clone is:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ad-infinitum/

good if we could share code/ideas/graphics etc
An optimist believes that this is the best of all possible worlds,
the pessimists fears that this may be true.


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